240 All About Potatoes

I find it amazing how one simple question opens the door for a podcast that turned out to be about an hour long. Today, here on episode 240, we delve into the world of potatoes. How to grow them, how to store them, and - the question that started all of this from a listener - what are the best potatoes to grow? We’re talking potatoes today - the most consumed vegetable throughout the world - with America’s Favorite Retired College horticulture professor, Debbie Flower; as well as Master Gardener and vegetable expert Gail Pothour.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

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Pictured: Yukon Gold potatoes

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Transcript

Garden Basics Ep. 240 ALL ABOUT POTATOES   TRANSCRIPT

Farmer Fred  0:00  

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

I find it amazing how one simple question opens the door for a podcast that turned out to be about an hour long. Today, here on episode 240, we delve into the world of potatoes. How to grow them, how to store them, and - the question that started all of this from a listener - what are the best potatoes to grow? We’re talking potatoes today - the most consumed vegetable throughout the world - with America’s Favorite Retired College horticulture professor, Debbie Flower; as well as Master Gardener and vegetable expert Gail Pothour.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

Farmer Fred

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast . There’s a lot of ways to get your questions in: you can give us a call, that always works. You can call or text us at 916-292-8964 or go to speak pipe.com/garden basics and leave us an audio question there. You can also email us at Fred at farmerfred.com or fill out the little question box at GardenBasics.net. A lot of ways to get your questions in, just like Alan, who writes us…oh, by the way “us” is me and Debbie Flower, who is here. She is celebrating her birthday today, as we record this. You have gardened since you were a small child.

Debbie Flower  2:02  

Yes, one of my favorite things was to garden with my grandfather. When I was born, the first eight years of my life, I lived right next door to my grandparents. And they owned the lot next to us. And so we had a big garden and it was a wonderful time with a person I adored, so I have great memories.

Farmer Fred  2:21  

And you keep on doing it.

Debbie Flower  2:22  

I do. It keeps me sane. 

Farmer Fred  2:26  

Because plants don't talk back. Well, happy birthday to you.  Alan writes in and says, “What varieties of potatoes are best to grow here?” There are literally hundreds of potato types that would work in just about any portion of the country. Here in California, the University of California recommends varieties like Noragold, Rosette Red Lasoda, Kennebec and White Rose. I like Yukon Gold myself, but your local nurseries will carry the best seed potatoes for you to get. And you can buy seed potatoes from catalogs, too. And they'll be getting in and shipping out seed potato varieties such as Colorado Rose, Heirloom Russet Burbank, Purple Majesty, French Fingerling, and heirloom German butterball. in the wintertime is usually when they're mailed out and when nurseries get them, as well. I think one of the keys to homegrown potato success is planting at the right time to avoid frost damage to young plants. It's usually winter, early spring planting, I used the term, “seed potato”. What am I talking about?

Debbie Flower  3:35  

It's not a seed, it's a piece of the potato. The potato is a stem, actually, I used to do this in class. You can take a potato and look for the eyes. The eyes are the nodes of potatoes, so places where stems and leaves would grow. And they go around the potato in a spiral. And at one end they’re growing and they're very close together. There's a whole bunch of them right there. And that's where if the potato stayed in the ground and kept growing, it would get bigger, it would grow out in that direction. And so I always usually start there and try to find a spiral and then you go around the stem and toward the other end of the potato, and you can draw a spiral on the potato. 

Farmer Fred

That sounds like fun. With most of those eyes  along one end, would those be the ones that you would chop up and plant?

Debbie Flower  4:25  

You can take any eyes. First of all, you buy certified seed potato from a reputable source. And that means it's certified to be disease free and to be the type of potato that it says it is to be the NorGold Russet or  the Kennebec or whatever. You don't want to plant ones that you buy at the grocery store. They are treated with chemicals to prevent them from sprouting; and sprouting is exactly what you want. And they may contain diseases. There are diseases that potatoes get that are bad for potatoes that we humans can eat and it doesn't harm us, but it harms the potato. And once you put that in your soil, your soil is contaminated. And I have seen those diseases on potatoes purchased at the grocery. The one most that comes to mind is a lot of black, almost sooty stuff on the potato. And that's a disease, a potato disease, and it's going to reduce your potato production. So don't risk it. Don't risk contaminating your soil forever. By buying something at the grocery store, go to your local reliable nursery, get certified seed potatoes, and what you're buying is potatoes. I've never seen them sold already cut, have you?

Farmer Fred  5:35  

No, you've always had to buy a whole potato. And it should be, like you said, a seed potato. One thing I've heard and it's probably true that I do is: after cutting up the potatoes into one or two eyes per piece, let it sit out on the kitchen counter overnight to allow it to callus over because it might rot otherwise.

Debbie Flower  5:52  

they contain a lot of water, they're very wet. And when you cut it, liquid oozes out, and that's a great place for microorganisms to grow there. Hopefully, if you have a healthy garden, there are lots of microorganisms in your soil. And if you put that wet uncured piece of potato in the ground, they'll just go right for it, and it'll rot in the ground. So yes, let it dry out on the counter for at least 24 hours.

Farmer Fred  6:16  

So you want to use seed potatoes. And we get another question from Bill who writes in and asks, “What's wrong with using some of the potatoes from our earlier harvest to plant a new crop? Is there a difference between eating potatoes and seed potatoes?” And this goes back to your comment about transferring soil borne diseases,

Debbie Flower  6:33  

Right. We’ve talked about crop rotation in the garden, you can build up diseases at a location in the garden, and you can move them from place to place, especially with something like a potato. And so each year, you start with certified disease-free seed potatoes, you're never introducing or increasing the presence of a disease that you maybe already have.

Farmer Fred  6:56  

Seed potatoes are rather rigorously tested as well. They're certified disease free varieties and they are tested by inspectors. There's a lot of demanding potato criteria when it comes to growing seed potatoes. they're certified to be free of some diseases that can ravage an entire garden, like early blight, late blight, damping off, verticillium wilt, and nematodes, too. So why create problems by not using seed potato?  And that includes the ones that you might even grow yourself.

Debbie Flower  7:30  

Exactly.

Farmer Fred  7:31  

I think that's what led to the problems in Ireland way back when.

Debbie Flower  7:34  

yes, the build up of the disease that caused crops to just totally fail and people to starve,

Farmer Fred  7:41  

I guess one option to get around that would be if you wanted to grow it from your own potatoes, would be to grow them in containers. And that way, you wouldn't be passing on any soil borne diseases into your garden.

Debbie Flower  7:58  

Right, but you would potentially be wasting media.

Farmer Fred  8:01  

You would have to throw out the media, right. But for a lot of people, maybe a large container, 15 gallon container or larger, it might be the only way they can grow potatoes.

Debbie Flower  8:10  

it's a wonderful way to grow potatoes. In fact, even given that I have soil available to grow potatoes in the ground, I might choose to do it in a container anyway because my experience is, once you have a potato patch, it's always a potato patch. Because something comes up every year. you never get every little tiny piece of potato stem out of the ground. And so it overwinters and it grows the next year and you've got more potatoes and more potatoes so having it in a container limits where those potatoes are. 

Farmer Fred  8:43  

I like to think of it as the Alstroemeria of the vegetable world. you can never get rid of it.

Debbie Flower  8:48  

Growing in a container also allows you to control the texture of the soil and if you have clay soil or very rocky soil you might get some funny looking potatoes. but in a container with container media. It's going to be pretty open and easy for the potatoes to form nice shapes.

Farmer Fred  9:04  

And containers  are easy to cover. You can throw a frost cloth over it , if when you planted it, you thought the weather would be fine in the future. but a sudden weird frost might come up. you can cover it with a frost cloth.

Debbie Flower  9:16  

Yes. and  these potato pieces, as you said, are available in late winter and early spring, the certified disease free seed potatoes. and then they're planted four to six weeks before the last frost or the predicted last frost.

Farmer Fred  9:32  

Isn't that a mystery now? 

Debbie Flower  9:34  

Good luck on that. for me it would be relevant here in California with relatively cool soils. so anything above freezing means you can work it . it's not frozen solid and up to about 70 degrees up to when you're going to be putting or have recently put in your other summer crops. So you're gonna dig a hole, a trench or hole, four to six inches deep and put that cured piece of certified disease free potato in there, and it must have an eye on it, that eye is a node. And that's where the new growth is going to grow from.

Farmer Fred  10:12  

Should the eye be facing down or up? or doesn't matter? 

Debbie Flower

it's not critical. a plant will figure it out.

Farmer Fred

 unlike, say garlic, where yes, where you do want to plant root down. as that potato plant grows, and it emerges from the soil after you've planted it and covered it with a couple of inches of soil, I guess it's a good idea to put more soil on top of it.

Debbie Flower  10:33  

Right. Because the potato  is your crop, what you want to harvest is the stem that grows underground. And so if you cover up the stem that's above ground, it will make new stems underground, and you'll have more potatoes.

Farmer Fred  10:45  

And same is true with growing them in containers. start with a couple of inches of soil in the bottom, lay the seed potato pieces on the top, cover with two inches of soil. As the sprouts grow, repeat the process of covering until you're about within a couple of inches of the container top or so.

Debbie Flower  11:02  

right. and then you will get a plant, it's a kind of a pretty plant, and it will flower. So they do flower and they can make seed. We don't use that in reproducing them. But they will do that . the whole crop is typically  three to four months, from the time you plant your chunk of certified disease free seed potato to the time you're going to harvest. You can harvest the young ones, the little ones, when flowering has finished. And then you're going to wait till the plant itself has all turned yellow and looks horrible. And then you're going to harvest the rest of the potatoes.

Farmer Fred  11:42  

And when you're harvesting, it's always a good idea to maybe dig with a spading fork instead of a shovel so you don't injure the potatoes because they're going to be scattered in a lot of different places, you can start digging well outside the canopy of the leaf. But dig straight down and sort of lift up that whole mass if you can.

Debbie Flower  12:03  

And you want the soil to be relatively dry when you're digging, because especially if you want to keep the potatoes over a long period of time, store them somewhere, because you want them to be dry. So you take them out and just brush the soil off of them. 

Farmer Fred  12:18  

right. Don't wash them. 

Debbie Flower  12:19  

don't wash them, if you want to keep them. if you're gonna use them right away, you can wash them, but keep them dry. And then keep them in a dark, cool place. But first you have to lay them out and let them cure for how long?

Farmer Fred  12:33  

“Let them rest so they they dry completely outdoors or in a warm area covering to avoid greening then store in a cool dark place.”  They don't know either.

Debbie Flower  12:42  

Yeah, you want to let them dry. You don't want them to wrinkle,  during the cure, then you can put them into a cool dark place not touching each other.

Farmer Fred  12:51  

If your potatoes start turning green, with green shoulders, you probably don't want to eat those.

Debbie Flower  12:55  

Yeah, that's an indication that they're metabolically active and are able to make the chemicals that are natural to them, including solanine, which can be poisonous. In fact, we don't eat potatoes at my house because the solanine causes my husband's arthritis to be worse.

Farmer Fred  13:13  

I'd never knew that could happen.

Debbie Flower  13:15  

Oh, yeah, potatoes are the worst for him. Wow, he loves them. But they cause the symptoms fastest and the worst. But over time, we've been doing this for many, many years over time. He's been able to eat a little bit now. a little, you know, a few French fries, a couple of potato chips.

Farmer Fred  13:35  

The University of California digs into the question, so to speak, of how long to let the potatoes cure. They say, “dig the potatoes up, allow them to dry and store in a cool dark place.”Everybody is a big help in this.

Debbie Flower  13:49  

 I'm not sure what allow them to dry means. I've never had enough that I've stored them for a very long time. Because I tend to plant too many things, too many different types of things. And so I don't  have a lot a lot of space for them.

Farmer Fred  14:02  

I guess if you want big potatoes or healthier potatoes, and you see flowers, I guess you better cut off the flowers to send that energy to the potato.

Debbie Flower  14:10  

yeah, flowers do take a lot of energy out of the plant. They don't make any food themselves. They use food. they're parasites off the rest of the plant. But you can get some really cool potatoes. You can get some such as Yukon Gold they kind of have a buttery flavor. And then there are purple ones and red ones and some just have purple skin and red skin. And in some of them when you boil them, the color of the skin changes to tan. Some of them though, are purple and red all the way through. It's lots of fun and it's fun to make potato salad with different colored potatoes.

Farmer Fred  14:45  

Some purple varieties include Heirloom Viking, and Heirloom Purple Majesty. Those are nice ones. Red ones include Colorado Rose, Dark Red Norland, and French fingerling. That is kind of interesting. It's sort of a small potato. They almost look like one potato would make about four French fries.

Debbie Flower  15:03  

Yeah, the fingerlings tend to be long, more French fry-shaped, long and thin. I was reading somewhere that the potatoes we buy at the grocery store have been very much influenced by what the fast food restaurants want. They want a certain size, a certain quality to the flesh, because they use them strictly for French fries. So there's a lot more to the potato world than what we experience by just buying at the grocery store.

Farmer Fred  15:30  

Idaho would cease to exist without fast food. Potatoes are king. All right, a lot of good potatoes out there. Try some try some heirloom kinds. Try some ones that you see at your local nursery as well and again, the nursery will stock them when it's time to plant. it's a little confusing here in California because in our area we have two potato planting seasons. One season is December through March and then we have a summer planting schedule for potatoes here in August and September. So if you miss the  August September planting, do it in the winter.

Debbie Flower  16:04  

Right. We have a long growing season here. Good luck to Alan.

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ALL ABOUT POTATOES WITH GAIL, PART 1

Farmer Fred

If you listened to what Debbie and I were just chatting about when it comes to potatoes, you know we had two unanswered questions. How long do you cure potatoes?  we couldn't find a good answer. And the other, Should you snip off the potato flowers in order to send that energy back underground and make those potatoes that are growing down there get even bigger? To get those answers, we turn to our potato expert our vegetable expert, Sacramento County Master Gardener Gail Pothour. She knows her vegetables. And Gail, regarding curing and snipping, what's a potato gardener to do?

Gail Pothour  18:55  

Somebody could be some added chores you don't necessarily need. Talking about the cutting off the potato flowers: That is something that never occurred to me to do. So I did some research and I have found that you probably don't need to do it. You can do it if you want. It may not make any difference. What I find interesting is all the university sites that I had been on in states where they grow a lot of potatoes like Idaho, Maine, Minnesota, a lot of states where they grow a lot of potatoes, all their university publications on growing potatoes never mentioned cutting off the flowers. But there's articles on the internet. You can find a lot of things on the internet . It actually talked about this and some of them were gardeners. one of them was a gardener in the UK. And he asked that very question. and so he did one of his own experiments. He had half of his bed of potatoes. The same potato variety. he pinched off the flowers on one half. and the other half, he didn’t. and the yield? there wasn't much difference at all. And then he cited a couple of studies that I since looked up. One was done a number of years ago at the University of Minnesota. And their conclusion was, yeah, there could be an increase in yield. And then there was another study he cited from Canada that said, No, there wasn't much difference. So I think the jury's still out on  whether or not this is beneficial. It probably doesn't reduce the yield. But whether or not increases it it, I don't know. that could be kind of a fun experiment, if someone wanted to try that in your own garden, they could grow the same variety of potatoes, half of them you’d take the flowers off, and the other half don't . see if there's any difference. Some plants, after they flower, if they happen to get pollinated, could develop what's called a berry, it looks like a little green tomato. And there are seeds inside of that those. Those seeds are only really used by breeders. So it's not worth keeping, you might want to pick those off. Because if you have children or grandchildren around, that could be a temptation for them to eat that, and that is toxic. So certainly, you might want to take those berries off. But I've found in all my years of growing potatoes, some plants never have flowers, which means they'll never have berries, and some that do flower and have berries, they're not very many.  I may only have one or two plants that have  berries. so I don't think you're going to have a lot of them. But you might want to take the berries off. But do the experiment. See if it works, you know, for you, if you have a difference in yield. 

Farmer Fred  21:43  

By the way, for new gardeners. Don't confuse the edible potato plant with the potato vine. The potato vine is an ornamental plant that just happens to have the name potato in it, you're not gonna get potatoes on it. Now curing potatoes, why do we need to cure a potato, what is curing?

Gail Pothour  21:59  

 when the potato gets to its mature length, its mature age, the skin on the potato will start to toughen up. And before it reaches that point, the skin can slip off easily. think of the potato as it's a stem, a stolon or stem that has bark on it, like the stem of a tree has bark on it. The trunk and the stems of trees have have bark on it kind of similar on a potato. This is a bit of a stretch. But I mean, it's similar to that. And the skin of the potato, until it reaches maturity, is real thin. It's respirating. It gets very complicated about the cell structure and all that, but it easily will slip off. When you cure the potato, it's now ready to harvest. So you cut off the irrigation, and cut off the plant at the soil level. We like to put a little bit of straw on top of it so that any potatoes that might be close to the surface or kind of sticking out the surface won't get exposed to sunlight, that causes greening, which is a little toxic. And we can talk about that later. But kind of cover it with a little bit of mulch and turn off the irrigation and leave them in the ground for about 10 days, two weeks. Then after that period of time root around in there, pull out a potato and see if the skin is getting rougher, maybe not barky looking, but it will be look rough. If you rub it with your thumb, the skin won't slip off. If it does still slip off, leave them in the ground for a couple more days. Try it again. So what you're doing is you're letting the skin toughen up so that the potato can then be stored long term, as some varieties store longer than others. some only a few months, some you know, four or five months. But that toughened skin will let it store longer.

Farmer Fred  23:58  

Yeah, I guess one way to describe it also would be akin to when you go to the grocery store, you'll see several bins with potatoes. Of course, there's the russet potatoes, the baking potato. It has sort of  a rough, thick skin to it. But if you go over to the refrigerated section in the vegetable department, you'll see new potatoes, and they have a much thinner skin.

Gail Pothour  24:19  

Yeah, and the new potatoes are good. They have a real thin skin it will totally slip off if you rub it. The new potatoes are formed when the potato plant is flowering. So that's the point of growth for the plant. The flowers in it triggers it to bulk up the tubers so  the tubers that are underground are starting to bulk up. You could then go in and rob a few new potatoes. They're not going to store because they have this super thin skin. So if any that you would harvest as new potatoes, you'd want to cook them that night.

Farmer Fred  25:00  

We should point out too, that when we're talking about curing, it's for the storage of potatoes. Because when you harvest a potato, you can go ahead and eat it that night if you want to.

Gail Pothour  25:09  

Oh, right. And if, if in the process of harvesting the potatoes, if you dig them up a little bit, you bruised them, you've gouged them in some way with your spade, when you're getting them out of the ground. Yeah, you would eat those tonight. They're not going to store. And so another reason for the curing is not only to toughen up the skin, but if there's any blemishes that might be on the surface of the potato, those could maybe heal over a little bit, as long as they're not anything too deep. I find that I'll get out there with my my fork, a big spading fork. I think I'm far enough away from the plant and I put it in the soil and pull up the potatoes and I invariably will spear a couple of them. So those you would definitely not want to try to store anything that has a major blemish like that. You'd want to cut it open, clean it out, make sure it's doesn't have dirt and things like that, and eat it right away. If it's too bad, I'd toss it.

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ALL ABOUT POTATOES WITH GAIL, Part 2

Farmer Fred

We got another question in from a listener over on the Facebook page who asked about using organic potatoes for seed as opposed to grocery store potatoes, which have been treated with a sprouting inhibitor. I think we come back to that problem of, it depends what was in your soil.  

Gail Pothour  27:55  

Well, that's true. We always recommend that if you are going to plant potatoes,you want to buy seed potatoes from a reputable nursery or potato grower catalog, wherever they sell certified disease free seed potatoes. because it's really easy to pass along. symptomless viruses and other diseases that are in the potato that was in the plant, you don't see it in potato. So if you went to the grocery store or farmers market and purchased organically grown potatoes, that means they were just grown using organically acceptable pesticides. you still have some pesticides, they're used, but they're organically acceptable. It doesn't mean that they are disease free. And I can give you an example of this. This is the kind of “do as I say, not as I do”. we always get certified disease free seed potatoes that you've get from a reputable grower. Well, I was at a farmers market one year and bought some potatoes that were grown organically. And I had some leftover and decided well what the heck, I'm going to just try growing these potatoes, I’ll put them in one of my raised beds. And the potatoes grew and the plants did great and I harvested potatoes. But they all had scab. Common scab is a bacterial disease. It's pretty common in potatoes. Well, I have it in all the potatoes that are harvested. So I now have scab in that raised bed. Now whether or not it came from the potatoes that I planted or some other source, it was a good lesson. I don't do that anymore. And if I am going to grow any potatoes in that bed, which I would not do two years in a row, I always get scab resistant varieties now that I buy, because I perpetuated scab, so it could be something You do at your own risk. We always recommend getting disease free, certified seed potatoes.

Farmer Fred  30:07  

 I was amazed to learn just how little seed potato you need to really have a bountiful production, I think the figure was somewhere along the lines of two pounds of seed potatoes will produce something like 50 pounds of potatoes.

Gail Pothour  30:24  

probably depends on the variety. the more likely it's going to be for every pound of  potato that you have, you're going to get anywhere from four to eight pounds, so maybe even 10 pounds, depends on the variety depends on the growing conditions. You know, if it's too hot, that kind of suppresses tuber enlargement, things like that. So it could be a number of factors. But variety plays a big part in it. I know we grow a variety called Bodega Red, at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center.  It's a an heirloom that has been listed on the Slow Food USA Ark of Taste, this one that we try to grow every year. and our first harvest, we probably only planted nine plants. So nine little seed potatoes, ended up with about 50 pounds of potatoes, it was great. So, you know, we don't get that kind of yield all the time. But a lot of it has to do with the variety and the growing conditions.

Farmer Fred  31:21  

Hearing about your adventures with scab, it makes me wonder about rotating a potato crop, just because the potato plant has a nasty little habit of leaving potatoes behind. You never get them all, there's always some left behind. And next year, what do you know, all these new potato plants come up. If you were to rotate your crops, it seems like you're spreading the potatoes all over the place?

Gail Pothour  31:48  

Well, it's good idea to rotate your crops, because you don't want to plant potatoes in the same spot two years in a row. But one of the problems about rotating your crop is potatoes like to have kind of more acidic soil in the pH range of 4.8 to 5.8, which is a little bit lower than most common vegetables; they tend to like a pH near six. If you are acidifying your soil to accommodate potatoes, which is also good if you have scab. then the next year, you bring in another crop that doesn't really like that acidic soil.  that crop might not do as well. So it can be kind of tough, rotating crops that like different pH soil.

Farmer Fred  32:37  

I think in that case, then, if you wanted to rotate the potatoes out and you wanted to put something in, I might put in a few blueberry plants.

Gail Pothour  32:44  

Yeah, you could do that. blueberries is a plant that does like to have acidic soil. So yeah, you could certainly do that. But it is always a good idea to rotate your crops. The scab bacteria that does get on potatoes also gets on some other crops like beets, turnips and carrots, and things like that. So you kind of want to stay away from getting scab, because it can get on other crops as well. And there aren't, as far as I know, there aren't any pesticides that can be used to suppress scab. It is not available for home gardeners.

Farmer Fred  33:23  

I guess one way around all of this would be to be growing potatoes in large containers. Now in the past, we've talked about growing sweet potatoes. And if people want to listen to our chat about sweet potatoes, they can go back to either episode 101 or episode 173, and listen to what we said about sweet potatoes. But if I recall correctly, you talk about starting sweet potatoes in a barrel or something like an old metal trashcan with holes in the bottom to get the soil to warm up faster. Would that be true with regular potatoes as well?

Gail Pothour  33:56  

Oh, absolutely. In fact, we grow potatoes every once in a while in half wine barrel at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. And I grow potatoes in large containers every year in my own garden. Because I have scab in my soil. If I'm growing a scab resistant variety, which I have to do, because I have that issue, I'll do that in the bed. But if I want to grow a variety that is not scab resistant, like Bodega Red, I will grow that in a large container. I have several containers that are roughly the same width as a half wine barrel, maybe a little bigger, but they're a little bit taller. I'll get three seed potatoes in each of those containers and they do very well in there. you don't get quite as big a yield as you would have in  a raised bed, because the seed potatoes are a little bit closer together. And that has a lot to do with what your yield will be. The farther away the plants are from each other, the bigger your yield. But I still get a great harvest out of these large containers. And what you do is make sure you have a lot of drainage holes in the bottom. potatoes must have good drainage, put about six inches of potting soil in the bottom. And then if it's a large container like a half wine barrel, three seed potatoes, nestle them down in there, cover them with another four inches or so of soil, and water them. And then as the plant grows, when it gets to be about 10 to 12 inches tall, add more potting soil, you're basically going to be filling them up, filling them up is what you would do, if they're in the ground, you want to bury some of the plant, but you don't want to bury the whole plant. So you'd still want to have six inches or so of the plant sticking out. And then as it continues to grow, continue to add more potting soil, until you get to about two inches to the top of the container. That's it. Maybe add more potting soil, maybe put a layer of straw as a mulch, the potatoes will form in that soil that you've added all the way up  in the container. Because the potatoes form, basically ,above the seed potato, the new potatoes and the storage potatoes you're going to be harvesting later, will form above that sweet potato, and it works great. Oh yeah, and you don't want to ever completely bury the plant anyway, as you're adding the potting soil, you will you still have a foot of the plants that's not buried, and the plant will still get oh gosh, in my container, the plant probably was three feet tall, you know, outside of the container, I had to put a cage around it secret from shopping. So what you're doing is this process called healing up. And if you were growing in your raised bed or in your garden, you would plant the potato in a trench or in a hole, maybe six or eight inches down. As it grows, you start adding soil you fill in that trench or the hole. And then as the plant continues to grow, you could kind of scoop up soil from the surrounding area to make a little mound around the plant. So what you're doing is giving a place for all the tubers to form within that soil. And then it also excludes sunlight because light that gets on potatoes if they're exposed to sunlight for very long, the skin can turn green. And that's a toxic alkaloid. It's called solanine, that if you ate a lot of it, it could make you vomit and have diarrhea. Typically, it's because it's bitter. people wouldn’t have to eat that much to actually get sick. But that's the whole reason for, or one of the reasons for, hilling up. To keep the sunlight excluded.

Farmer Fred  37:54  

I'm glad you cleared that up about how much soil to put up around the plant because a lot of sites are very vague on how much soil you add. Do you cover the plant or not cover the plant ? they don't really say specifically. So you do want to leave a certain section of that plant still exposed to the air. 

Gail Pothour  38:15  

Yeah, after it sprouts and grows up through the potting soil, up through the ground. When it gets to be about a foot tall, that's when I start adding more potting soil into the container. or garden soil if it's in my raised bed. and you never want to completely bury that plant. you always want to have 10-12 inches of the plant sticking up. I mean you could probably get by with a little less than that, but you'd never want to bury the plant completely. You are covering some of the stems and leaves, but the bulk of the plant will still be out in the air. it's not buried.

Farmer Fred  38:52  

should you remove some of the leaves that you will be burying? 

Gail Pothour  38:57  

just leave them on and add soil. just cover them up.

Farmer Fred  39:02  

your description of it being an acid loving plant, much like blueberries, and I'm wondering if you are using a container and you're going to plant potatoes, perhaps  using a blueberry friendly soil mix might be the order of the day, since blueberries like a pH around 5.5. And one common formula for a blueberry soil mix is 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 of a rhododendron azalea Camellia soil mix, and 1/3 small pathway bark. In your estimation, would that be a good mix for growing potatoes in containers?

Gail Pothour  39:37  

It could be. I have actually not ever done that in containers. I use plain old good quality potting soil and despite the fact that the potatoes like the more acidic soil, I've not had my potting soil tested so I don't know what the pH is. I haven't tested it on my own and the potatoes do well. Now with the blueberry mix, it has pathway bark in it.

Farmer Fred  40:07  

small pathway bark. 

Gail Pothour  40:08  

Yeah, small pathway bark. I don't know, I'm not sure how that would affect potatoes, I think it should be fine, I would think so. Another experiment! give it a try and see how it works.

Farmer Fred  40:19  

exactly. If it is a plant that likes a low pH, well, that's a low pH, soil mix. And all the information I read about planting potatoes and mentions that for full size potatoes, you want to space the eyes when you plant them about a foot to a foot and a half apart. How far apart and how many would you use if you're planting in a container?  for  example, let's use that half barrel, which might be two feet high by two and a half feet wide at the top.

Gail Pothour  40:49  

In those we would put three, three potatoes, it might be crowding it a tad more than if you were growing it out in your raised bed or in the garden, I'd put them 12 to 18 inches apart, if I was doing it in my garden. In a large container like this, they're going to be closer together. So you will have somewhat reduced yield just because the closer the plants are, the less tubers you'll get or smaller tubers, you’ll get. Last year I've had extra seed potatoes. So in addition to the two large containers I used, I used a black nursery pot that a tree came in.  it's pretty good size, but it's not  tall,  it's not as wide as a half wine barrel. So I put two seed potatoes in there. and I tried one right in the middle. The plants did well. I  had a  fairly decent yield considering I only had one or two seed potatoes in there. If you do crowd them, that will affect the yield. So ideally, they'd be 12 inches apart at least.

Farmer Fred  41:59  

Alright, so it's up to the individual gardener as far as how many you put in there, but certainly, I would err on the conservative side. And if it's a 15 gallon pot that might have a diameter on the top of 12 inches or so. I might only put two in.

Gail Pothour  42:15  

or try one. And I've heard of growing them in a grow bag or you know some other type of bag. As long as it has good drainage. bags tend to be a little smaller, maybe just put one in if it's a grow bag that's got a fairly decent diameter you can do a couple in there probably.

Farmer Fred  42:36  

Or use smart pots, which come in a wide variety of sizes, you certainly can plant them. Thanks for the setup Gail.

Gail Pothour  42:46  

Anytime, Fred.

Farmer Fred

You are big on experimenting with growing crops in bales of straw. Can you grow potatoes in bales of straw?

Gail Pothour  43:15  

Yes, actually. I mean we did sweet potatoes one year. We have not done regular potatoes. Not yet anyway at the fair oaks Horticulture Center, but I know that it can be done. I have seen articles written by Joel Carsten who is the straw bale gardening guru and he shows that  in order to harvest, what you do is dismantle the straw bales. So you can't reuse the bales. You'd have to dismantle them and the potatoes just fall out. And because they're in straw that has turned into compost inside and there's no real soil. The potatoes were pretty pristine. They didn't have a lot of damage or scrapes or things like what you could get in garden soil where you've got rocks and things like that, things that are kind of sharp. So it can be done. We've not done it. The one issue that I would have with is because you want to bury the seed potato deeply. You know, you'd be you can't till it up in a straw bale. So you'd want to start them down in the bale quite far. I'm not sure how you get them down there. Because at the beginning of the growing season, even after the straw bales have been conditioned, and you're starting to make compost inside the bales, those bales are still pretty tight. And I've had difficulty just digging out some of the straw in order to put in a transplant of a tomato or whatever. The idea of being able to dig a deep enough hole in the straw bales to get that seed potato down 8 or 10 or 12 inches seems like a bit of a challenge.

Farmer Fred  45:02  

Fortunately, the seed potato itself that you would plant is fairly small, maybe an inch and a half two inches square. I'm wondering if you used a drill bit that was a soil auger, if that could get through a straw bale.

Gail Pothour  45:19  

That's an interesting thought. Very likely it could, as long as it didn't kind of jam up the auger. But yeah, that would be  one way to try it.

Farmer Fred  45:30  

I think there may be some cleaning involved of that drill bit as you're going down because I could see the straw wrapping itself around the auger.

Gail Pothour  45:39  

I do know that there were some articles I've read over the years. I think Sunset Magazine had one. fine Gardening magazine has an article, too, about growing in straw. but it was straw that was put into a cylinder. So you plant the seed potato, right at the soil level, you wouldn't really bury it much, you know, maybe an inch or two below the ground, you'd put some kind of a wire fencing that you made into a cage like a tomato cage, or maybe it was smaller openings, maybe chicken wire, I'm not sure. And then you start adding straw and so I guess the theory would be that because the potatoes would form above that seed potato, they would form up in that straw. We actually tried that at the hort center one year, something similar, where we planted, I think, it was a German Butterball or one of the fingerlings that we planted right at the soil surface, made a wire cage, put straw in it and added straw as the plant grew. We didn't really find that the potatoes formed much in the straw. They were pretty much down in the soil. But it was kind of difficult keeping everything moist because there was so much air circulation around that straw, it tended to dry out a little bit.

Farmer Fred  47:01  

So you ended up with smaller potatoes.

Gail Pothour  47:02  

Yeah, smaller.  this has been probably eight or 10 years ago. So I don't really recall what our yield was. But it must not have been great because we haven't done it since. we just thought we'd try it once and it wasn't that successful for us.

Farmer Fred  47:19  

when it comes to soil for planting potatoes I will defer to the National Sunset Garden Book, now out of print, but they are available used. So it's definitely a handy reference for people like me. It says that potatoes needs sandy, fast draining, fertile soil. tubers become deformed if they're planted in heavy, poorly drained soil . in cold winter climates plant as soon as soil is workable in the spring. In mild winter regions plant in early spring for a summer crop or in late summer or early fall for a winter into spring crop. Potatoes can be planted in mid winter, where frosts are not as severe, as long as the soil isn't too wet from winter rains. Sounds like us.

Gail Pothour  48:02  

Yeah, pretty much does. if you're going to plant potatoes in clay soil, or you get a lot of rain, the potatoes can rot in the  soil. So it's pretty key that you have good draining soil. You also want to be sure that the potatoes don't dry out because if they have a period of drought or too much dryness, the tubers stop growing. then when they get irrigation again or the rains come, then they start growing again and you start getting these knobby potatoes, they're not perfectly oval, you start getting a little growths on them and that happens when you have dry and then wet conditions. So it's best to keep them pretty uniformly irrigated through their growing season. At least until they're flowering.  That's key. Irrigate all during that vegetative growth time.  When they start flowering, after that, you can kind of let them not dry out, but it's not quite as important as it is to water during that first to two or three growth stages. 

Farmer Fred  49:17  

however, if you want to grow a potato that would resemble the face of Richard Nixon, go ahead and do that boom and bust cycle of watering to the potato plant. 

BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS NEWSLETTER

Farmer Fred

Even though it’s November, many gardeners in milder areas of the country may still be harvesting tomatoes. What to do with those remaining, healthy tomatoes? Can or freeze them! And an easy way to start is with roasted tomatoes. How do you do that? How do you preserve the most flavor? What sort of equipment do you need? We’ve got the details in the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, which is dated November 18th, and is out now.

For current newsletter subscribers, look for the Roasted Tomato recipe, in the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, it’s in your email. Or, start a subscription to the free, Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. It’s easy. Find the link in today’s show notes or sign up at the link at our homepage, garden basics dot net.

ALL ABOUT POTATOES WITH GAIL, PART 3

Farmer Fred

You had mentioned earlier, before we started, how you store your potatoes. And I think for storage. That's a problem for a lot of people who live in mild climates, because ideally the potato should be stored around 40 degrees. And even here in California, finding a basement that stays at 40 degrees in the summertime would be very hard to find. So what is your solution, if you have a potato that you really, really like and you want to save some of it for planting next season because you know  it doesn't have any defects and you grew it in disease free soil and you wanted to save that potato, how would you do it?

Gail Pothour  50:59  

I'm taking a chance that I'm not perpetuating any kind of disease. So I've been real careful, made sure that the plant didn't have diseases, and the the tubers that I harvested are pristine, they have no blemishes or anything, what I do is after you go through that curing process that couple of weeks where the skins toughen up, I like to save potatoes that are no larger than a chicken egg. Because I can plant those whole next year. If they're larger than that you have to cut them and then you run the risk of the rotting because they have this cut edge. The way that I save them is I would put them in a paper bag and write on it what the variety is, and the date,  I use a sandwich bag, a small bag, then I would put thati n a gallon ziplock bag, but I don't close the bag, I don't zip it up. The plastic will provide some humidity for the potatoes so that they don't get too dry. But if you zipped it tight, and it was airtight, then you run the risk of them molding, then I put that opened up zip top bag with the paper bag inside, in my crisper drawer of my refrigerator. I have a spare refrigerator in my garage. And that crisper drawer is dedicated to storing potatoes for the next year. And I only do this for varieties that I know shouldn't have any diseases, or the varieties  are hard to come by. it was one that I'm trying to keep it going and I can't find them anywhere else, that type of thing. And they typically will last all winter. I check on them about every month, just to make sure that none of the potatoes have started to mold or rot or anything. And if they did, I take those out. If I usually harvest say in July, and maybe even in August, those potatoes will typically last until I'm ready to plant them out in early March. I will get them out in February. Take them into a room temperature area, so they can come out of dormancy, and then they can sprout. that works for me. I think ideally, if you have a spare refrigerator, and you were able to raise the temperature a little bit so it's not too cold. You don't want  to freeze them or anything like that, but a crisper drawer is pretty good for that. Now if you just wanted to store potatoes overwinter that you want to eat, you don't have a basement we typically don't have basements here , but you could put them in an unheated spare room. I have a pantry off of my kitchen that doesn't get heated so I keep  it in there because it's a little bit cooler than the rest of my house. or you could put them in a box under your bed or in the garage, insulated.  that would be Good way to do it as well.

Farmer Fred  54:02  

Or put it in your wine cellar?

Gail Pothour  54:04  

Yes, if you had one, perfect.

Farmer Fred  54:08  

Well, two notes about the storage of potatoes.  when you're storing the potatoes, you're storing them whole, you're not cutting them up in a one inch chunks for planting next year. 

Gail Pothour  54:20  

right, that's correct. And I can say I like to save the ones that are no larger than a chicken egg, I wouldn't want any smaller ones, sometimes you'll  harvest ones that are the size of marble, and I wouldn't save those. But anything that's much larger than that chicken egg, if you're going to be planting it next year. And you could get these from a nursery or something, they could be big potatoes, you'll end up cutting them into one or two inch chunks, as long as they each have at least one eye. But the problem that you can have is you cut those potatoes, you let them air dry for a few days, and they are more prone to rotting in the ground than a whole potato that hasn't been cut. So that's why I save ones about the size of an egg.

Farmer Fred  55:11  

But for people who may be getting confused because we talked about with Debbie about when you're ready to plant your seed potatoes and you have that whole potato is to cut it up into chunks, where there is one or two eyes and then let them sit on the counter for one to three days to callus over.

Gail Pothour  55:27  

Right. And that will callus over. But because it's been a cut side, it is a little more prone to rotting in the ground than not. We have had pretty good luck every once in a while we'll have a couple of them that won't sprout because they brought it in the ground. And they've happened to be ones that we cut. But a whole small potato is a little less problematic. There are some things you can do I've read where they say dust the cut edge in wood ash or some other material. But I'm not sure I would want to do that, because wood ash is very alkaline. And if  you have scab in your soil, alkaline soil can perpetuate scab. you want to have more acidic soil. So I would personally  stay away from the wood ash just because it would not be good for the scab in my soil.

Farmer Fred  56:27  

I'm glad you brought that up because for people who might be planting potatoes in containers using a store bought soil mix, there are some new soil mixes coming on the market that could be as much as 30% biochar. and biochar is very alkaline in nature simply because it is basically  a burnt wood product. So you may want to avoid anything with biochar, if you're planting potatoes,

Gail Pothour  56:55  

right. And I do want to mention that if you're planting in your garden, and you don't know what your soil pH is, I'd highly recommend getting a soil test, a professional soil test, because if you do need to adjust your soil pH, making it more acid for potatoes, or  whatever it is you're growing, the professional soil lab can give you solutions on how much of whatever it is you need to change your pH. So if you need to lower your pH, probably add  elemental sulfur. But how much should you use? I don't know. it would depend on how much you need to reduce the pH and the soil testing lab will tell you. otherwise, you got to kind of figure it out on your own. And I'm not good at those mathematical practices, you know. So I would like to have a professional tell me how much sulfur I would have to add per 100 square feet or whatever to get the pH down to the optimum levels.

Farmer Fred  57:58  

And you certainly may be able to get that information when you get a soil test done by one of the organizations that we recommend on this program a lot. There are various universities throughout the country who, for a very reasonable fee, will analyze your soil and tell you what you need. You tell them where it is on your property, what you plan to be growing in it, you send them a sample taken from several different spots in that area. And it's usually 20 to $30 or thereabouts, and you get back a very nice report.  I'll have the links at the end of the show in the show notes about the University of Massachusetts, Colorado State and Texas a&m, all three of those have soil divisions that do soil tests for anybody in the United States. So that's an easy way, a fairly inexpensive way, to get a very complete soil test. Of course, you can buy pH test kits at any nursery and do it yourself.

Gail Pothour  58:52  

But then again, you have to figure out on your own, how do I raise this or lower that? whether it's  the nitrogen or the phosphorus or potassium or the  pH, whatever, you have to figure that out on your own, and I'm not real good at that. so somebody told me how to do it.

Farmer Fred  59:11  

A couple of other pieces I want to add to this thing you talked about: storing the potatoes in the crisper of your garage refrigerator. Made sure it's only potatoes in there. You don't want to be storing apples in there, For example.

Gail Pothour  59:25  

Anything that lets off ethylene gas can adversely affect those potatoes. That's why I have them in my crisper drawer dedicated just for potatoes. All right,

Farmer Fred  59:36  

now let's get to the fun part. What are your favorite potatoes to grow? 

Gail Pothour  59:40  

Well, because I have scab in my soil, I have to stick with varieties that are scab resistant and there are some great ones out there. Probably my favorite is one called Jelly - like peanut butter and jelly  - it is scab resistant, it is very similar to a Yukon Gold. Now the yellow skin,  the yellow flesh,  is very high yielding. I've had great luck with it. I have been saving seed potatoes from those for the last couple years because the company that  I purchased them from changed hands and it's been difficult to find them, they're out of stock. So I do save those potatoes, the ones that I save, I grow in containers so I'm sure I don't have any diseases. Another one that I really liked is Yukon Gem. I think one of the parents is Yukon Gold, which is a very common one you can find at the grocery store. and it's really delicious. So Yukon Gem, that's also scab resistance. There's one called Russian Banana Fingerlings. That's really good. It's scab resistant as well. Fingerlings are ones that are shaped like your thumb, kind of . they're long and skinny, they tend to be a little more late season, so they take longer to grow. And another one is called Corolla. It is another scab resistant variety that has golden skin and flesh. it is kind of medium large, with oval tubers. It's also a late variety. So those are the ones that I tend to stick with. I need to have the scab resistant varieties. But then another one that's great, which we grow at the Fair Oaks horticulture Center is Bodega Red, it's an excellent potato. I don't personally grow it because it's not scab resistant. I do grow it in a container, but I don't grow it in my garden for that reason. But it's an excellent variety as well. Little hard to find  since it's been listed on the Slow Food USA Ark of Taste, it's one of those heirloom varieties that kind of went out of existence because of neglect or whatever and Sonoma Slow Food is trying to bring it back. So they're trying to get enough growers to grow it that it will become available for the general public.

Farmer Fred  1:01:59  

If you're going to be planting potatoes next spring, this would be shopping season. So put in your reservations for those varieties that you want with a nursery or catalog. The potato. it's a key world food crop. it's produced in something like 130 nations, grown more than any other crop but corn, it's grown from sea level to 13,000 feet. It's edible, the dry matter accounts for the highest volume of food consumed in the world, more than fish and meat combined. It's high in vitamin C and potassium. very high in protein for a vegetable. It's nearly fat free. More potatoes are consumed by the world's population than any other vegetable. Why not try it in your garden? We learned a lot about growing potatoes with Gail Pothour, Sacramento County Master Gardener. Gail, thank you so much.

Gail Pothour  1:02:45  

You're welcome, Fred. Anytime.

Farmer Fred  1:02:47  

Wow, that was a lot of information about potatoes today. But perhaps during all of that you had questions in your mind, such as what is potato scab? Where can I get my soil tested? What is the Slow Food Ark of Taste? Where can I find the Sunset National Garden Book? How do you condition a straw bale? And, what were all those favorite potato varieties that were mentioned?

You can find all that information in today’s show notes, which are usually available wherever you get your podcasts. And if they don’t have it, find it at our home page, gardenbasics.net. And that’s where you can also find the link to the weekly newsletter, Beyond the Garden Basics.  At gardenbasics.net, you can also find transcripts of many episodes, including this one.  And thanks for listening.