304 Q&A Seed Starting Tips. Weed Control

• Seed Starting Tips, including how to read seed packet instructions : 00:24
• The Hori Hori Knife; Oxalis and bittercress weed control tips: 19:06
• Want to Leave Us a Question? Here's How: 32:39

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Pictured:  Young tomato plants, hardening off.

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seed propagation mats
seed starting supplies
seed starting light systems
Renee’s Garden Seeds
Farmer Fred Veg Planting Calendar for USDA Zone 9
Garden Kneeler and Seat
Hori-Hori Knife
Hairy Bittercress Weed control tips
Oxalis weed control tips

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Transcript

GB 304 Q&A Seed Planting Tips TRANSCRIPT

Farmer Fred  

Welcome to the Tuesday edition of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. Unlike the Friday edition, we're using the Tuesday podcast to answering your garden questions. Stay tuned to find out how you can get your garden question into the program. So come on, let's do this. 

SEED PLANTING AND STARTING TIPS

Farmer Fred

It's Tuesday, time for another edition of Garden Basics. And on Tuesday, we like to answer your garden questions. “We” being me and of course, America's favorite retired college horticultural Professor, Debbie Flower. She is here, I think. 

Debbie Flower

yeah, I'm here. 

Farmer Fred

Oh, good. Welcome back to the abutilon jungle.

Debbie Flower    

Yes, pretty. Lots of flowers.

Farmer Fred    

Even though it is winter, we can watch the little hummingbirds flit about. 

Debbie Flower

yes, this is nice. 

Farmer Fred

All right. We like to answer your garden questions. And we really like it, especially if you could tell us with your voice. So that means give us a call at 916-292-8964 and leave a message there. 916-292-8964. Or if you don't want to use your phone, you can leave an audio question without making a phone call via speakpipe. Go to speakpipe.com/garden basics - one word gardenbasics - and shout out your message. And we'll get that. We still like e-mail. We still like text. I'm a text kind of guy. So you can text us at 916-292-8964. You can send email to Fred at farmerfred.com. Or you can fill out the contact box at Garden Basics.net. We have an email question from Maryann who writes in and says, “On the back of the seed packet, there was a column that says ‘Start indoors’. Then underneath it, it says ‘direct sow’. This means to plant it directly outside, correct? We don't start indoors, then transplant?” Here's Debbie Flower with two words of advice. 

Debbie Flower    

Well, if I was gonna say choices, choices. 

Farmer Fred

Or, it depends.

Debbie Flower

 it depends. exactly, yes. What that seed packet is telling you is you can start it indoors and then they give you some instructions. Usually they tell you a certain number of weeks before your average last  frost date, which would have to do with your hardiness zone. And, start it at a certain temperature for a certain plant, plant the seed a certain depth, keep it warm, moist, certain amount of light. And it will germinate in that condition, indoors, somewhere. It could be in your house, it could be in your greenhouse, it could be wherever you choose. And then, if it says plant outdoors, or direct sow.Direct sow does mean to plant it right into the place in the garden where you want it to grow. And that will have another set of directions and tell you when to do it. In that case, it's typically so many weeks before your last average date of frost, or so many weeks after your last date of frost, or when temperatures settle at, for instance, 50 to 55 degrees Fahrenheit, and they mean night temperatures. And not just that you had one night of 55 degrees, you had nights that were between 50 and 55 for a week or more. Night temperatures reflect soil temperatures. They may also tell you what soil temperature is best for seed starting.

Farmer Fred  

And that may be a little bit sooner in your area if you're gardening in raised beds. Because raised beds tend to heat up a little bit quicker. But again, once those plants come up, they are at the mercy of those nighttime temperatures. So really, that's good advice, as far as making sure that nighttime temperatures are above whatever that seed pack it said it should be,  50 to 55 degrees, it depends.

Debbie Flower    

And when you're starting indoors, you need those temperatures as well. Sometimes it will say as high as 80 to 85 to start the seed indoors, but be aware you don't have to increase the temperature in your house to 80 to 85. You just need to keep the roots of that plant or seedling or what will become the roots, the seed, that warm until it germinates. And so the best thing for that is a heating pad.  They make bottom heat pads for seed starting.

Farmer Fred    

Usually sold as propagation mats. They're widely available online, and  high quality nurseries will have them, as well. They're usually about 18 inches long and maybe 12 inches wide. And they hold a tray very nicely.

Debbie Flower    

Right. And you can't feel the heat. They don't heat up as warm as a human body. Just trust that they're on and it will warm the soil. It also means you're gonna have to water it more frequently because it will dry the soil out faster. 

Farmer Fred    

Yeah, the temperature of that propagation mat is really dependent upon the surrounding air temperature, wherever it is. So if it's in a warmer room, that soil propagation mat will have a little bit of a warmer temperature than that.

Debbie Flower  

But it will heat the root zone, and that's the only part that the plant needs warmth during this germination process.

Farmer Fred   

Now, does it mean that you should start everything indoors and then transplant it outdoors? Or are there certain seeds that maybe should be best planted outdoors first?

Debbie Flower    

Some plants don't like to have their roots disturbed. Peppers happen to be one, although we buy pepper transplants or grow them ourselves all the time. Zinnias are another one. Bougainvillas, and I don't know that anybody has start them from seed and grown as an ornamental flowering shrub-like plant. I don't know that anybody except a commercial grower would be starting them from seed, but they really don't like to have their roots disturbed.

Farmer Fred  

Don’t forget one of your favorites. Cucumbers don't like their roots disturbed.

Debbie Flower  

Cucumbers, corn, watermelon, melon, pumpkin, squash, all of those I think are best direct seeded. You will find them for sale already germinated. But  You get a better crop established better sooner, if you direct sow into your garden,

Farmer Fred   

Some seed packets have better information than others. 

Debbie Flower

I agree 100%. 

Farmer Fred

And if you are at a good nursery that has an array of seed packets from different seed companies, maybe make your choice on which Seed Company to choose based on the information on the back of the packet.

Debbie Flower  

Yes, may we name names? 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, go ahead. 

Debbie Flower

The one I liked the very best is Renee’s Garden seed packets. And when I was teaching, I did a a class about reading the seed packet and discovered  that by going through my many, many old seed packets, there are some seed packets that tell you almost nothing. And others like Renee's give you lots of information. Very detailed. Her seed packets tell you when to start, how deep to plant, how far apart to plant, what to look for temperatures, all kinds of great information for both direct seeding and for starting in a container, as well as transplanting, and also growing instructions and harvest instructions and how to use the plant, the product of the plant, the fruit of the plant. They're really very informative, available at many nurseries and online. 

Farmer Fred   

And she also has that same information at her website, reneesgarden.com. If you accidentally lose the packet, you can go on to reneesgarden.com and find the same information online that she has. And speaking of what you said about post harvest, what do you do with all those tomatoes or peppers or whatever? She has a lot of good recipe books available.

Debbie Flower    

Yeah, yeah, a very, very good company to get to know.

Farmer Fred   

Now the question comes up, when to plant.  Because some seed companies put information on there that may be kind of vague, you know, other than nighttime temperatures, it may just be a map of the United States with different colors and you got to kind of squint at that little map and figure out which color you are, and then hope that you haven't undergone too severe of a climate change. Right? Do it that way. For USDA zone nine, I this is just self aggrandizement on my part. But the Farmer Fred Vegetable Planting Calendar for the Central Valley, East Bay and low foothills of Northern California is actually a pretty good barometer for planting on a month to month basis for probably 30 or so different vegetables. And it would be applicable to a lot of USDA zone nine. And  I've seen nurseries print this and have it available around here. I would rather get out good information. In fact, I'm giving it away. If you go to my newsletter, The Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter on Substack. One of the current issues have that available. You can print it out. So go to substack.com/gardenbasics, and you can find it there.

Debbie Flower  

Well, you can just Google “beyond the garden basics” and it comes up. 

Farmer Fred   

Oh, that's nice.  

Debbie Flower    

Yes, it shows that it's on Substack. But you can get to it that way.

Farmer Fred    

And then you can print it out and hang it on your refrigerator, if you want. Or do a screen dump to your phone of that chart. I keep it posted in the office. It just as a good reminder. For instance, we're coming up to February and it's amazing the number of vegetables that you can start from seed or plant in February. It include an @ sign to indicate that it needs to be started indoors, first, in a protected area, and  grown indoors for a few weeks, and then set out. So they are more sensitive plants in that way. Tomatoes are that way,

Debbie Flower   

Right. Tomatoes are  getting started right now. hen I was teaching,  we had to work within the calendar of a college semester. And school would have started last week, probably. And we have a plant sale. We would have a plant sale in March and I would start tomatoes probably this week. That would be one of our very first lab classes, rushing through  lab safety and cleanliness and all the rules. And then, “here's some seeds, plant them”.

Farmer Fred   

Yeah, there's  a lot of seeds that need that little boost by indoor starting. And then you can transplant them outside. Tomatoes just being one of them. Peppers are that way, as well.

Debbie Flower   

Especially if you live here. We don't know where the questioner lives. 

Farmer Fred    

That's the other thing. People, if you are gonna write in, tell us where you are. All gardening is local. Thank you.

Debbie Flower    

If you live here in California and Central Valley where we live, we have such a long growing season, I think people are tempted to start throwing tomatoes at each other in August. And tomato season can go on and on. I've had tomatoes at my Thanksgiving dinner. So you can start them by direct sowing, which occurs later, four to six weeks for us, later than starting them from seed. I'm four to six weeks behind and getting a crop. But I have such a long growing season that it kinda doesn't matter. But in places with shorter growing seasons, my son lives in Minnesota, they're under snow right now not feet of it yet, but it’s there. I’ts very cold, it was below zero at his house last week. So no chance of starting tomatoes outdoors. And certainly if you start them indoors, they're gonna be way too big to transplant out. So they have a short growing season. And for that starting them indoors is really, really beneficial.

Farmer Fred    

Now you may be saying, well, why can't I just throw some tomato seeds out there and let them come up? Well, based on my experience of growing tomatoes, when some of the tomatoes fall off, and then some of them sprout, and start growing. That usually doesn't happen till July or August. And by the time they're mature and producing fruit, which could be anywhere from 55 to 80 days, chances are it's gonna be too late. 

Debbie Flower    

Right for that. Peppers,especially, for sure.  Especially In a short season growing place. 

Farmer Fred   

Have you ever seen a pepper plant  sprout from seed in the garden? 

Debbie Flower  

No, I have never seen it happen with peppers. On tomatoes, it pretty regularly happens from the ones that fall off and sit there and rot. And when they do that, you have a whole forest of tomatoes. And tomatoes planted too closely together will not bear fruit.

Farmer Fred    

It should be about 18 inches apart minimum. 

Debbie Flower

Yes, that’s the minimum. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah. that's why you start tomatoes and peppers indoors about six to eight weeks beforehand. Now in my experience, as far as tomatoes and peppers go, generally it's if you wait eight weeks from seed for your tomatoes, at the end of that eight week period, you're going to have a jungle. And one good piece of advice to practice is if that plant gets to about three or four inches tall,   transplant it from wherever pot you started it with, into a larger pot. And then keep growing it, indoors.  It's amazing how you can tell how quickly those transplanted tomatoes are when you go from a three inch pot to a one gallon pot and then into the ground. They just mature quicker. 

Debbie Flower    

Well, when you transplant a tomato, you bury the stem. So when you're going from a four inch pot to a one gallon or a number one, you can pretty much just drop the plant in and you want several sets of leaves sticking out the top, cut the roots, bury it all,  and you will get roots out of that buried stem. When you're doing it in the garden, because the garden soil is much heavier and has less oxygen in it and the drainage is different, instead you dig a trench a sideways, and maybe the bottom of that trench is six inches deep. And you would lay that four inch plant sideways with the root ball down in the deep part, curve it up through the trench and then I use a little stake, it can be a popsicle stick, it does not need to be very tall, to hold those few leaves at the tip of the stem out of the ground that are going to be your above ground parts, so they will be upright. And then you cover over the buried stem. But new roots will grow from that stem and that's one of the reasons it becomes such a vigorous plant as you do move it up into bigger pots.

Farmer Fred    

One word of warning this time of year, especially here in USDA zone nine. In February, you tend to have nurseries who will bring in some little tomato plants and little pepper plants that are fresh from somebody's greenhouse where it's 70 or 80 degrees and offer them for sale. If you took those home and planted them in the ground… kerplunk! You'll be back at that nursery in May to buy new ones because they will have died. 

Debbie Flower    

Just the fact that they  came out of somebody's greenhouse and immediately went up for sale is a problem. Plants that have been started indoors need to go through a process called hardening off. And hardening off is preparing them to withstand outdoor conditions, compared to indoor conditions. indoor conditions you can control temperature, humidity, and watering.  When you put the plants outdoors, the day to night temperature fluctuates much more than it does indoors. The day to day temperature fluctuates much more than it does indoors. There's greater wind, there's lower humidity in general, especially if you're starting indoors with a cover or hood or a plastic cover over those baby plants, and the sun is brighter outdoors. So you have to adjust, get those plants to adjust to that process. And it's a gradual exposure of the plants to different conditions outdoors, starting in full shade, protected from the wind for maybe three days, and bringing them in at night, then putting them outside in a little less protected area, bringing them in at night, putting them outside and you move them to more wind, more sun, as you go on. You need to be home. Do not start this process when you're going to be working a very long day. Because they typically need water twice a day when you first start out.

Farmer Fred    

Gardeners don't take vacations in April. 

Debbie Flower  

But if you know you have a big project at work, and you're going to be gone from 6am to 6pm, and then come home and crash out on the couch, that process can’t happen. You have to have time to attend them. 

Farmer Fred 

Now, before any local nursery gets the idea that they want to bury me underneath eight cubic yards of compost or potting soil, I’m not saying don't buy those plants. If you go to a nursery in February and you see tomato and pepper plants, and you say to yourself, “I don't think they're going to have this variety for much longer, I better buy it now.” In that case, keep it indoors in a sunny spot and grow it for six weeks  or so. Or whenever  those outdoor temperatures get, as you said,  above 50 degrees on a regular basis at night. 

Debbie Flower   

Right. And the other thing besides strong sun or strong light is provide wind. 

Farmer Fred    

That  would be a fan right? As opposed to blowing on it. 

Debbie Flower   

Yes, well, an experiment that proved this was done by shaking the plants for 10 minutes a day. If you want to do that instead, have at it. But yes, the thing that makes a stem strong is that it moves in the wind, and in what's naturally occurring outdoors. And so you want to imitate that indoors. And that creates what’s called reaction tissue. The cells that will allow that stem to stand straight up, if you've started seeds and they lean over, the stems are very thin, they lean towards the window, you turn them around, they lean back the other direction, they are growing toward the light. And that's a good thing. That's a positive thing. But you want those stems to stand up. So you want them to move in the wind. 

Farmer Fred   

There used to be, a long time ago, a board table game of football, it was called the electric vibrating NFL football game. You put the little players on a what looked like a football field. And you'd flip the switch and the whole thing would start vibrating and the players would move around. Very random. 

Debbie Flower   

That would be a great find from your local thrift store. 

Farmer Fred    

You know, you plug it into a timer and it comes on every, what? How often would you run a vibrating football game filled with small plants?

Debbie Flower  

They just need  10 minutes a day. The other is get your kids involved,  if they have a little remote control vehicle, put your little plant tomato plants on that vehicle and have them drive it around the house recklessly for 10 minutes a day, and then clean up after them. But the plant will have had the shaking that it needs to create a strong stem. 

Farmer Fred    

The official name of that game, by the way, is NFL Electric Football from Tudor games. Wow. you may want to see it's for sale on Amazon. So there you go. Wow.

Debbie Flower  

Something to look forward to that would create reaction tissue.

Farmer Fred   

With the help of your favorite football team, ladies and gentlemen. Well, I think that pretty much covers everything Maryann asked, and more, because of… well, that's what we do here.

Debbie Flower   

Yeah, we went down another scenic bypass or two. That's fine.

Farmer Fred    

So I think the big piece of advice here, would be to choose your seed packets  carefully or at least, if they have an online source with more information that get your seeds from. But make sure that you read and follow all label directories. 

Debbie Flower

Seeds included. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, seats included. All right, Debbie Flower, thanks so much for your help.

Debbie Flower

My pleasure, Fred.

WINTER WEEDS INTRO, Flashback to Ep. 302: GARDEN GIFTS

Farmer Fred  

As the days get longer in late January and early February, you may be lingering a bit longer in your garden in the milder climates. And you may have noticed that the 2024 weed season has already begun. This past weekend I spent a good amount of time digging out - on rather wet soil - the appropriately named popseed weed, also known as hairy bittercress, which can seemingly grow overnight from an innocent looking, ground hugging rosette of edible leaves, and produce stalks nine to 12 inches tall of wiry stems with a small delicate looking four-petaled white flower at the end of those stems. 

And if you don’t attack the hairy bittercress at this stage, before you know it, it has gone to seed. And when you attempt to disturb the hairy bittercress weed, the plant flings up to 600 seeds in all directions, including in your face. You may want to don a pair of safety glasses to keep this weed seed out of your eyes. 

the ones that don’t hit you in your face can be flung for several feet, creating a new crop of hairy bittercress weeds for the future. They can germinate not only in your garden and lawn, but in cracks in your brick or concrete hardscaping areas, gravel walkways and wherever it can find a bit of soil to take root.

One way to limit the spread of hairy bittercress weeds  is to cover the plant with a bowl, gently lift one side of the bowl, and dig out the weed. That way, you avoid getting hit in the face by the flying seeds as well as keep the seeds that do escape in the immediate area. this weed is spreading throughout California and other USDA Zone 9 areas right now, with more to come as the weather warms. 

One of my favorite digging tools for weeds is a Hori Hori knife, a favorite garden implement of many seasoned gardeners. We talked about the hori hori knife last Tuesday, in Episode 302, good garden gifts. Go back and listen to that for more information about the hori knife as well as another popular garden implement to keep you from getting wet knees while pulling or digging weeds between late winter rainstorms, the Garden Kneeler and Seat. Again, it’s talk about in Episode 302 of the Garden Basics podcast, Good Garden Gifts.

Another weed taking hold right now that also produces way too many seeds in late winter is oxalis. It can go by the common names creeping woodsorrel or Bermuda buttercup. Again, hand weeding this time of year is the best remedy. We delved into the oxalis weedpatch with America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture professor, Debbie Flower, back in 2021, in Episode 153. Here is that segment:

CONTROLLING OXALIS WEEDS

Farmer Fred 

A few weeks ago, we were talking about nutgrass or nutsedge. And what a hated weed that is for many of us. Well, many of you chimed in on the Get Growing with Farmer Fred Facebook page to say, "Nutgrass, heck! You haven't seen my patch of whatever (fill in the blank)." And a lot of votes came in for whatever, including things like star thistle and bindweed and Johnson grass and kudzu and Ivy. And a lot of people don't like oxalis. And there's even desirable oxalis, but this particular oxalis you don't want. It can take a lot of punishment and come back for more. Debbie Flower is here. She has pulled her share of oxalis from many places. And actually maybe pull is not the right word. Maybe it's dig out.

Debbie Flower 

No, I pull. Mostly. One major thing to keep in mind when you're trying to control weeds is this: BISS. Before it sets seed. All you're gonna do is pull and I like pulling weeds. It's therapeutic. I can remember sitting in my front yard in Portland, Oregon, pulling wodd sorrel out of my lawn, just to calm myself down after some event. So if you want to get it out, if you do nothing else, get the weed out before it sets seed, especially with this wood sorrel. Wood sorrel creates this tall capsule of seeds and when it opens it throws its many, many, many seeds. long distances.

Farmer Fred  

Oh, like hairy bittercress?

Debbie Flower 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Like hairy bittercress. You're absolutely right. So pulling it and those seeds can go 10 feet away. And so then you've got another infestation. Pulling it is helpful. If you leave any part of the taproot or any part of the root or any part of the stem. You have not killed the plant, but at least you have removed the above ground portions that you got your hands on before they set seed.

Farmer Fred 

There are several common names for the weedy oxalises: creeping wood sorrel and Bermuda Buttercup are two of the more common names. It can be found in lawns, flowerbeds, gardens, nurseries, greenhouses, and basically throughout the world,

Debbie Flower 

Right. Cracks in the driveway, cracks in the sidewalk. The place between the asphalt and the concrete on the street, wherever it can get its little tiny seed, it will grow. And of course in those tight spaces, it's harder to remove. It is perennial, the oxalises are perennial. I have ornamental oxalis in my yard. It's one of my husband's favorite plants, but it does not produce these seed pods. So it's just one clump that gets bigger and bigger and bigger and it's only there in the spring actually a little bit of it is up still flowering into the fall. It is not invasive. This wood sorrel and the Bermuda Buttercup, which are two different species of oxalis, are the weedy oxalises.

Farmer Fred 

Did you know that the Greek word for "sour" is oxalis?  It refers to the the acidic nature of what you would find inside it, and they warn people who have livestock to remove any of oxalis because they can suffer from oxalate poisoning.

Debbie Flower

Oh that's a swelling of the mucous membranes and so they could suffocate.

Farmer Fred  

So one good reason that if you do have oxalis and you have livestock, you do want to remove that from the area.

Debbie Flower 

It can be a little bit difficult to identify what is oxalis and what isn't. It looks like clover. It looks like clover, right? True Clover has a round headed flower, but the oxalis and another plant called Medicago,  in the genus Medicago, also looks like a clover. So just looking at the leaves isn't gonna be super helpful.

Farmer Fred  

Right? The leaves are comprised of three small leaves. it looks like three leaf clover with a yellow flower.

Debbie Flower  

Right. That's the clue. Any of the three that we're talking about the Medicago, the Bermuda Buttercup and the wood sorrel all have yellow flowers and clover does not.

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, the Medicago is Bur Clover, that's is the common name for that one. And that too can be found in many parts of the world. What's interesting is it's useful as a pasture plant.

Debbie Flower  

The Medicago fixes nitrogen, it's in legume family. And legumes are things that fix nitrogen in their roots. I used it in teaching, I could find it all over campus. So I would pull some up and take it in into the classroom to show the nodules on the roots that are formed in in nitrogen fixation.

Farmer Fred 

It can sometimes though, the Bur Clover, can sometimes be toxic to livestock, as we pointed out, and the seed pods can be a serious contaminant of wool.

Debbie Flower 

Yes, the seed pods on the Medicago have little sharp points on them. And so they can attach to other things like the wool of a sheep. That's how it spreads. Yes, it's a dispersal technique. Medicago doesn't throw its seeds. The seed pods are carried away on your pants, your shoes, your sheep, your dog, your cat. The Medicago is an annual of the three we're talking about. This one is an annual, the other two are perennials and the ornamental oxalises are also also perennials. So perennials are persistent, they have some way of living over during negative times whether it's cold or dryness, or whatever it is. And in the case of the oxalis, which is the Bermuda Buttercup and the creeping wood sorrel, they have little bulbs underground,

Farmer Fred  

And the University of California, on their great weed site, point out the obvious: that hand weeding is used extensively to reduce infestations and get it before it sets flower. Yes, yes, very important to do that, and they recommend the hoe, the hand pull, all those things that can help it, especially when you get it when it's young.

Debbie Flower 

Yes, and even if those bulbs have formed every time you remove the top, you're forcing the bulbs, the plant, to use the food in the bulbs to create a new plant and so that diminishes the bulb a little bit. And then you see new growth on top; remove it again. If you do that, over and over and over again, you eventually rob the bulbs of the food in them and you kill the plant. But you have to be persistent

Farmer Fred  

And here's why you don't want to mow it, for two reasons: Number one, the creeping wood sorrel survives and sets seed even when mowed as close as one quarter inch. Chances are, your mower doesn't get down to a quarter inch. And after using a lawn mower, creeping Woods sorrel grows, you're gonna have seeds all underneath the lawn mower. Around the blade and mower housing. So you need to clean the lawn mower thoroughly. Those bulbs are difficult to remove.

Debbie Flower  

Yes, sanitation is critical. These Oxalis plants can grow from certain portions of the stem, they can grow from seed so you want to make sure that you get any equipment you use in your landscape is washed. Typically you should wash it after you use it, before you put it away. So you're not transmitting it yourself from place to place.

Farmer Fred  

And this nasty stuff grows in lawns too.

Debbie Flower  

It does, yes. And it can be especially if you have a stoloniferous lawn like Bermuda or Kentucky Blue Grass. It can get sort of trapped under those stolons which are surface stems and it can be difficult to pull out. The wood sorrel grows on a stolon itself and roots from place to place. So pulling it out can be sort of like a doing a puzzle.

Farmer Fred  

If you're going to use a herbicide on it, and if it's in a lawn situation, know the type of lawn you have. Because it's different chemicals for different lawns. Cool season turf grasses such as bentgrass, Kentucky Blue Grass, fescues, rye grass have their own table of chemicals that can help control creeping woodsorrel. And then the warm season turf grasses like Bermuda grass, buffalo grass, Kikuyu grass, St. Augustine and Zoysia, they also have a list of chemicals that can control the creeping woodsorrel.

Debbie Flower 

And they're all different. Yeah, there's no overlap. 

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, and it sounds like herbicides for Bermuda Buttercup is very limited, since two of the four listed are nonselective Gluphosphonate and glyphosate.

Debbie Flower  

So they would kill the your lawn or whatever else is is growing in there.

Farmer Fred  

Basically, read and follow all label directions, always. And I guess one, I won't say a safe way, but at least a fairly safe way is if you have the case of the Oxalis growing in the lawn situation, maybe apply a pre emergent that's approved for use on turf. Yes, that might help. And they have very hard to say names, so I won't, but we will list them in the Garden Basics newsletter as far as pre emergent herbicides for cool and warm season, turf.

Debbie Flower 

And if you don't have that list with you, and you're in the garden center and looking for chemical,

Farmer Fred  

Read labels, always read labels. 

Debbie Flower  

Labels must show the weed you're trying to control in the situation you're trying to control it in. So oxalis or woodsorrel and lawn. Or oxalis or wood sorrel and ornamental landscapes, something like that.

Farmer Fred 

And I would think that when it comes to lawn, they'll break it down into cool season or warm season.

Debbie Flower  

You need to know what kind of grass you have, as Fred said.

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, all right. It's a tough one. It is oxalis. Common names include creeping wood sorrel, Bermuda Buttercup, and then a different genus, Medicago. And that would be the bur clover.

Debbie Flower  

Yes. And that's an annual, that one. I don't think you would even want to approach using an herbicide. Potentially a pre emergent, but nothing for once you see the plant. Just pull it, get it out of there.

Farmer Fred  

I remember back, and I got paid to do this; I was eight years old, and a lady down the street wanted me to come weed her front yard, which was all rocks. And it was Bur clover. And I just remember how bloody my knees were.

Debbie Flower  

Oh, your knees, your fingertips. I was weeding last week in my son's property, which has sections of rocks and my fingertips are a little damaged because of it.

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, bur clover seems to like rocks to grow on.

Debbie Flower  

And those seeds can sift right down through those rocks and get in the little crevices and germinate. 

Farmer Fred  

Yep, no doubt about it. Oxalis can be a bad weed, or a pretty plant. Choose carefully, pick your poison. Alright, Debbie, thank you so much.

Debbie Flower  

My pleasure, Fred.

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Farmer Fred    

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Farmer Fred

Garden Basics With Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and is brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, GardenBasics dot net. That’s where you can find out about the free, Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.