336 Q&A Kitchen Scraps in the Garden? When to Plant a Magnolia Tree?

In this episode, Farmer Fred answers a listener's question about burying kitchen scraps in the garden. He discusses the potential problems with this method, including attracting scavengers and affecting the quality of the soil microbiology. He suggests composting the kitchen scraps first or using alternative methods like African keyhole gardens. Debbie Flower recommends  the Green Cone composter. In the second part of the episode, Farmer Fred and Debbie Flower discuss the best time to plant a flowering tree, specifically the Magnolia 'Genie'. They talk about the benefits of planting in the fall and the challenges of planting in the spring or keeping the tree in a container over the summer.

Previous episodes, show notes, links, product information, and transcripts at the home site for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, GardenBasics.net. Transcripts and episode chapters also available at Buzzsprout.

Pictured: Genie Magnolia (Photo: Monrovia)

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“Beyond the Garden Basics” Newsletter: African Keyhole Gardens
National Gardening Association Thread: “Kitchen Waste Buried in Garden Soil?”
Green Cone Composter
Garden Basics Ep. 196 Indoor Composters
‘Genie’ Magnolia info

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Chapters

• 0:23 Q&A Kitchen Scraps in the Garden?
• 7:42 Q&A Plant Magnolia Tree Now, or Wait?
• 16:41 Want to Ask Us a Question?

Transcript

336 TRANSCRIPT Kitchen Scraps, Magnolia Tree

Farmer Fred 

Welcome back to the Tuesday edition of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. Unlike the Friday edition, we're dedicating the Tuesday podcast to answering your garden questions. Stay tuned to find out how you can get your garden question into the program. So come on, let's do this!

Q&A - BURY KITCHEN SCRAPS IN THE GARDEN?

Alice in Nor Cal   

“Hi, my name is Alice. I am a lazy composter. So what we do is we bury our kitchen scraps in different holes all through our raised beds all winter long, and it ends up making truly beautiful soil over the years. And there's lots of earthworms and other microorganisms that  I can't even see. Anyway, I'm wondering what could be any problem with that? We don’t have raccoons. And we do have skunks and opossums and that sort of thing because we live in the country, but they don't visit the garden. Apparently they have resources elsewhere, so they've never visited the garden. And except for them, I don't see that there's an issue because the soil really comes out nicely. But you never really mentioned using garbage In your discussion of composting. So I'm wondering if there's some problem that I'm not aware of? Let me know. Thanks a lot. Love your show.”

Farmer Fred    

Alice, other possible scavengers of kitchen scraps buried in the garden might include rats, gophers, voles and ants. Especially ants, which could create tunnels throughout your raised bed which would siphon the irrigation water away from plant roots and out the bottom of the bed, or wherever their tunnels might lead. But, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Whatever you're doing seems to be working. 

But beware there are a lot of variables. You want to bury it deep, certainly deeper than 12 inches to keep the four legged varmints, including the household dogs, away from it. For the same reason, you don’t want to bury meat scraps. Also, avoid any foods soaked in oils, salts or sugars, which can attract smaller pests and possibly effect the quality of the microbiology in your soil. 

For even more opinions - and they are just that - opinions and personal experiences - the National Gardening Association at garden.org has a thread entitled, Kitchen Waste Buried in Garden Soil? Many people have weighed in on their experience doing that very thing, and it appears to be evenly divided as to whether they like it or not.

There’s also the chance that the soil microbiology might be busy breaking down the nitrogen in those scraps instead of doing their primary job of feeding the plants’ roots. But that can sort itself out, in time.

I think the best place for kitchen scraps is in a compost pile or a worm bin, where the worms will make some of the best soil amendments around, worm castings. If it was up to me I would compost it first. 

Back in July of 2022, one of the editions of the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter dealt with constructing African Keyhole Gardens, another way to incorporate kitchen waste in the garden, using a hole-filled container which allows worms to go in and out of it, sort of like a real time worm bin where the worms can spread their castings thoughout the garden bed, which is shaped like a key hole to allow you get to the middle of a six foot round bed to deposit the scraps in a container, which could be as simple as a trash can with a lid, with holes drilled in the sides that are buried in the garden.

Another person with experience of burying kitchen waste in the garden is our own Debbie Flower, who has a special device that hold kitchen scraps in the garden. And she likes it a lot. She talked about it in Episode 196 in May of 2022, in an episode that was primarily about indoor composting systems. But she took a scenic bypass to talk about the composting bin in the middle of her garden, a device called the Green Cone:

Debbie Flower

I have a Green Cone composter outdoors, and that works very well. It  does not take meat products or grease or fats. There are techniques for gardening where you actually do the composting right in place in the garden in a hole in the middle of the garden. So there are other less expensive methods that are not as fast. And if you are just throwing the kitchen waste into the garden, maybe they attract vermin.

Farmer Fred   

Talk about your Green Cone, because I saw that set up in your yard. And it's an interesting little structure. It does look like an upside down, green, ice cream cone. And you're literally putting your kitchen scraps in that, out in the yard. And nobody can get to it.

Debbie Flower   

Correct. This is the third residence where I've had a green cone composter and it's worked very well in all of them. No, they're not paying me for this. They only build them when they have enough orders. So you have to get online and order it and it is called the green cone composter. It's tall enough, which it's about three feet tall. A raccoon was my initial fear. It cannot get into it. It has a lid with a hinge and a lock. I'd say I've broken every hinge and lock that has come on them. That's kind of the weak point of the thing, but I just put a rock on top,  only because the lid blows away. Nothing has tried to get into it. I have lots of worms that come out of it. One thing people don't like about it is that you don't harvest from it. Everything just disappears, because the worms come to it from underground. You have buried a fairly large sort of laundry basket underground and that's where your compost goes, and the worms come to it and drag the stuff away. I had my best one for 15 or more years, never emptied it. So I went to move. That's when I found out that the tea bags (that I use) was not biodegradable, at least not by the worms. So I had a lot of tea bags, empty tea bags in it.

Farmer Fred 

So it probably would pay you, after the first month or two of filling this, is to dig it up and see what's still there.

Debbie Flower   

Yeah, it would be very easy. You don't really have to dig it up, you just take the top off. And there is your laundry basket full of stuff. And you could see what's in there, whether your tea bags are biodegradable or not. I should say that whether your tea bags would be broken down by the things that are in the soil in a reasonable amount of time. Biodegradable, can have a very long definition.

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, I wonder if you have to move it around your yard?

Debbie Flower    

I never did. You could. You're creating a very microbe rich area right there.

Farmer Fred  

And how far do the worms travel normally?

Debbie Flower   

Good question. I can't answer that. 

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, I don't know either. But you certainly wouldn't want a backyard full of green cones but...

Debbie Flower  

New landscaping!

Farmer Fred   

Yeah, there you go. Maybe you could play croquet around them. Or construct a little miniature golf course with it.

Q&A - WHEN TO PLANT A FLOWERING MAGNOLIA TREE?

Farmer Fred    

When is the best time to plant a flowering tree? We explored that subject recently with America's favorite retired college horticultural Professor Debbie Flower. 

Farmer Fred

Let's answer a garden question.

Debbie Flower 

Oh, okay.

Farmer Fred   

It's from Lisa in Roseville. And she says, “My dear friend just gave me a two gallon Magnolia ‘Genie’ from a local nursery as a gift. It has several buds currently in bloom. While researching how to plant and care for it, I came across several references that said not to plant them when they're in bloom, but rather in the fall. Is there any truth to this? Should I keep it in a container through the summer? My gut tells me to plant it. Thank you for your time and advice, and making the world a better place.” 

Well, thank you for that.  As a matter of fact, we've spent a recent episode talking with Andrew Bunting from the Pennsylvania Horticulture Society about their Gold Medal plants and that plant, the Magnolia variety called ‘Genie’,  is a saucer Magnolia cross.  It's a gorgeous plant and the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society says, “The tree is the perfect choice for a small space garden. It has an incredible spring flowering display of red to purple scented flowers that are eye catching, long lived and easy to care for with repeat blooms through the growing season. Its narrow columnar form fits anywhere and can be grown in an extra large container. It prefers sun or part shade, slightly acidic, moist, fertile, well drained soils. It gets about 10 to 13 feet tall, and five feet wide.” And even though the Pennsylvania Hort Society says it's hardy in USDA Zones five through eight, I think it does, from what I've heard about it, does fine here in Zone 9, too. It’s a small space saucer Magnolia, and for a lot of people who enjoy the flowery magnolias, they really enjoy the saucer magnolias.

Debbie Flower   

Yes, they're the ones with the biggest flowers, they get the most flowers, before the leaves come out. 

Farmer Fred   

Yeah. And so they're gorgeous. This one is particularly gorgeous. Lisa brings up a very good question, though: Should I wait until fall to plant it? What should she do?

Debbie Flower  

You could plant it right away. And I don't know when this question came in…

Farmer Fred  

I'll tell you, because I have a follow up from her, too. 

Debbie Flower  

I see that. Yes.

Farmer Fred  

So this question came in last year at about this time.

Debbie Flower    

Okay. And she could plant it at this time. But the problem is, you have to be around all the time, you have to check the plant every day, you have to water it in a special way you have to water the media that the plant came in, when it was in the pot more frequently than the field soil around it. In our very hot, dry summers, it can be daily, it could be twice daily, and then watering the field soil around it, maybe once a week, this is your job. If you plant something into the landscape at late spring season, it's  in a container and you can water it regularly. Because the container will prevent it from drying out as much as if you put it in the ground. But you still have to water it regularly. And so what did Lisa do? 

Farmer Fred   

She was thinking  of maybe putting it in a bigger container and taking care of it over the summer that way, but you still got the problem of a container that's going to dry out quick. Yes, you gotta water and I mean, if you wanted to try something like that, I would put it on the north side of the house where it's going to get shade.

Debbie Flower

And not bombarded by the sun, hitting that black plastic and heating it up.

Farmer Fred  

You know, that would be a pot in a pot with mulch, maybe between the two pots. 

Debbie Flower

Yes. 

Farmer Fred

 I guess my suggestion to her was I understand your gut feeling of wanting to plant it right away. And I  think my advice was I would plant it now in an area that is out of the wind and gets afternoon shade. But no, I don't really want to leave a plant  in a plastic container in the summer because of possible heat damage to the roots. Again, I would help ensure its success by surrounding the newly planted Magnolia with several inches of mulch, as well as making sure it got regular watering during the summer, just like you advise. The downside is you might lose a few leaves and the blooms might fall off while it's adapting to its new home. But what you want to do is up to you. So I basically give her all the options, or what to do as far as a larger container with protection, like you talked about, or just take care of it and do it in the fall when it's dormant.  So she wrote a follow up this year. This came in about a couple of weeks ago. And she says I'm happy to report that my tulip magnolia tree is… Okay. Let's explain “tulip magnolia” tree. A lot of people call this the “tulip tree”.

Debbie Flower   

There's more than one tree with that common name. 

Farmer Fred   

Yes. And the real Tulip tree is a liriodendron.  And this is called the tulip tree even though it's a saucer Magnolia, because the flowers look like tulips, especially when they're in bud. So the common name is tulip magnolia tree. But it's a Magnolia soulangiana.  But this one, the “Genie”, is actually a cross between a soulangiana and something else, because of its small stature. So she says, “I managed to keep the little magnolia tree alive through the 2023 summer and then transplanted it in the fall. This spring, it flowered for the first time and it's simply glorious.” So I think she potted up in a larger container, maybe protected that tree for the past year.

Debbie Flower   

And now it's in the ground but put in the ground in the fall. Yeah, yes.  I have an automatic irrigation in my greenhouse in the summer, I open it up and get I have a fan running and get good airflow. And the combination allows me to keep some plants alive in there that maybe I wouldn't be able to otherwise mostly because of the irrigation.

Farmer Fred   

And if you're going to transplant it to a larger pot, and I don't  want to be a shill for Smart Pots, but I am, because I like  Smart Pots and I tested it myself growing roses in Smart Pots on the south side of the house a very hot spot. And I was taking soil temperatures of that plant in a Smart Pot container versus the roses in a plastic pot. Not a black plastic pot, either. It was a lighter colored plastic, and a pulp pot. And the coolest temperature that was maintained on 100 degree days was in the Smart Pot. It was like 85 degrees, that's a good temperature for roots and in the other ones the temperature was in the upper 90s And that's when root damage starts happening when temperatures get up that high. So if you are in the situation of needing to over summer a plant in a container, I would heartily recommend using a Smart Pot  to help keep the soil temperatures cooler and you're gonna get less evaporation. That's the other thing that happened too. It maintained its moisture better than the other plants. 

Debbie Flower   

Really? I would think that might be just the opposite because it's a very porous media that the pot itself is made out of. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, but the soil is much cooler. 

Debbie Flower

Okay. Okay, that makes sense. And you hand watered those? 

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, I did. 

Debbie Flower

That's a big job. 

Farmer Fred

Well, I'm a gardener.  It's the same reason I  get out there everyday this time of year into my rinky dink little greenhouse that I'd never buy again, because it's rinky dink, and screw in the window on the outside, in late afternoon, early evening, I trap the heat for the night. And then in the day, as soon as the sun hits the greenhouse, I unscrew that window and take it off and bring it inside because the stupid little mechanism that you'd use from the inside to crank it open doesn't work.  it broke within three months.

Debbie Flower   

Bummer.

Farmer Fred  

Yeah, folks, one more piece of advice on greenhouses: spend the money for a quality greenhouse.

Debbie Flower    

And get a bigger one than you think you need. Yeah.

Farmer Fred   

Thank you very much. All right. All right. Well, Lisa, congratulations on your successful ‘Genie’ magnolia tree. It is a beautiful saucer magnolia. And I think you're going to enjoy it and you got it off to a good start. Most people are impulse buyers. Yeah, but it's nice. If you think you're going to the nursery and you think okay, I'm gonna get some color for the house. Fine. Prepare the pots at home or the ground ahead of the ball. 

Debbie Flower   

I used to make that a rule. Dig the hole before I left. 

Farmer Fred   

Yeah, dig the hole. Have everything ready to go. That'll be certainly a good incentive for when you get home. Yes. Well, that's good parting words for them. Thank you, Debbie.

Debbie Flower  

 You're welcome, Fred.

WANT TO LEAVE US A GARDEN QUESTION?

Farmer Fred  

Want to leave us a question? You’ll find a link at garden basics.net. Also, when you click on any episode at garden basics.net, you’ll find a link to Speakpipe in the show notes, where you can leave us an audio question without a making a phone call. Or, go to speak pipe directly: speak pipe dot com slash garden basics. You want to call  or text us? We have that number posted at garden basics dot net. it’s 916-292-8964, 916-292-8964. Email? Sure! Send it, along with your pictures to fred@farmerfred.com. Or again, go to garden basics dot net and get that link. And if you send us a question, be sure to tell us where you’re gardening, because all gardening is local. Find it all at garden basics dot net.

Farmer Fred

Garden Basics With Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and is brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, GardenBasics dot net. That’s where you can find out about the free, Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.