338 Q&A Squash Flowers? Fertilizer Application? Tart Cherries?

In this episode of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Fred and his expert guests answer questions about: 
• Squash pollination woes with Master Gardener and vegetable expert Gail Pothour.
•  The timing and application of  plant fertilizer, with America's Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower. 
• Choosing tart/sour cherry trees for cooking purposes, with Phil Pursel of Dave Wilson Nursery. 

Pictured: Male, Female Summer Squash Flowers

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Chapters

• 0:23 Zucchini Flower Woes?
• 7:03 When is the Best Time to Fertilize?
• 17:05 Choosing Tart/Sour Cherry Trees for Cooking
• 23:29 Garden Basics Podcast - Help Spread the Word!

Transcript

338 TRANSCRIPT Q&A Squash, Ferts, Tart Cherries

Farmer Fred

Welcome to the Tuesday edition of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. Unlike the Friday edition, we're using the Tuesday podcast for answering your garden questions. Stay tuned to find out how you can get your garden question into the program. So come on, let's do this. 

Q&A THE SEX LIFE OF SQUASH FLOWERS

Farmer Fred  

Getting a lot of email here at the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast from people wondering, “Why am I not getting any squash? After all, there's flowers on the plant but the fruit that comes out is small and it falls off. What's wrong? What did I do wrong?” You didn't do anything wrong. Squash, melons, and cucumbers have a flowering habit which is unique among vegetable crops. Here to tell us more about sex with zucchini, is vegetable expert and Master Gardener Gail Pothour. Gail, we need to, I guess, explain the birds and the bees to the people here about boy squashes and girl squashes.

Gail Pothour  

Absolutely. It's squash and melons and gourds things like that are in the same family and they're what's called ‘monoecious’, which means they have male flowers and female flowers on the same plant. So part of the problem in this time of year is you're not getting any fruit, because the male flowers start first. Typically on cucurbits, the male flower will open up first. And then they will go through a phase where the female flowers will open up. And they've got to get synchronized, where the male and female flowers are flowering at the same time, for that same one hour in the morning, a real short time period when the pollen is viable, usually in the morning, and they've got to get synched up at the same time and you got to have pollinators there like bees, spread the pollen around. Pollen for squash tends to be pretty thick and heavy. So you don't have to worry about it blowing in the wind and getting wind pollinated. It's typically done by honeybees. And what I've noticed, most of my squash are pollinated by the native squash bees, they tend to pollinate my squash. Honey bees tend to pollinate my melons, but squash bees do my squash.

Farmer Fred    

Boy squash flowers, especially on zucchini plants, are very noticeable because beneath the flower is a long, thin stem.

Gail Pothour    

That's correct. And the female flower has a miniature fruit. So if it's a zucchini, it's going to be long and skinny. If it's a melon, it's going to be round or whatever, and fuzzy. But yeah, the female flower will have an immature fruit at the bottom, on a shorter stem. The male flower does not have that immature fruit; it has a longer stem. And depending on the variety of the squash, that male stem could be, or the flower stem could be, very long. I had a squash last year that I grew, it happened to be a winter squash, but it had a two foot stem on the male flower, I've never seen anything like that. But generally it's not that long, but it will be longer than the female.

Farmer Fred  

And as I mentioned earlier, people complain that when fruit does develop, it tends to either be very  small and it falls off.

Gail Pothour   

Probably what has happened is there was not adequate pollination, maybe the male flower wasn't open at the same time the female was and so the pollen didn't get transferred at the right time. Or, it could have been that during the heat spike we've had, the pollen could have become no longer viable and the bees are now transferring pollen that's dead, basically. So it's not going to fertilize the female fruit. And then there's always things like if we have a long hot stretch, pollen can die. Also, the heat can make the zucchini or squash plants bear more male flowers than female. So it tends to be more maleness during longer days and hotter weather, whereas female flowers tend to come on when it's shorter days and a little bit cooler weather.

Farmer Fred  

Timing is key here. Can us humans help out this process at all?

Gail Pothour  

Certainly. You can either get a little artist’s paintbrush and transfer the pollen from the male flower to the female flower. Or you could actually just take the male flower off, remove the flower petals, and use that as the brush and transfer the pollen. And especially if you want to try to save seeds if you're growing an open pollinated variety and wanted to save seed, that's the preferred way to do it. Pollinate it yourself and then put a bag or something over it so it can't get cross pollinated. 

Farmer Fred  

That's a lot of work and my philosophy is just wait. Mother Nature will figure this out.

Gail Pothour  

That's true. This seemed like a lot of work to me, as well.

Farmer Fred  

Let's talk about something that I get a lot of questions about, and they're wondering - if gardeners plant several different varieties of squash, or members of the curcurbit family together, such as pumpkins and melons and zucchini, perhaps in the same garden, is there going to be a chance that you're going to get some wacky fruit that first year?

Gail Pothour  

No, because for one thing, there's several different species in the Curcurbit family. So if we're talking summer squash, zucchini, Patty pan, crookneck, the typical pumpkin, acorn squash, spaghetti squash, those are all in the same species, Cucurbit pepo. And if you were growing several of the squash in that particular species, they could cross pollinate. However, it's only going to affect the fruit that you grow next year from seed that you saved this year. So it's not going to affect the fruit this year. So you can grow a melon next to a cucumber next to zucchini next to a big giant pumpkin. If they all could cross pollinate, which they wouldn’t, they're different species. But if they could, it would only affect the seed that you saved that you would plant next year.

Farmer Fred    

Gail Pothour, explaining to us everything we need to know about sex with zucchini - the boy flowers, the girl flowers and what they're doing and when they're doing it.  And the bottom line, folks is - go back inside, worry about something else. They'll figure it out. Is that right?

Gail Pothour  

That's absolutely correct.

Farmer Fred   

All right. Gail Pothour, vegetable expert, Master Gardener. Thanks for a few minutes of your time. 

Gail Pothour  

You’re welcome, Fred. It was my pleasure. 

WHEN TO FERTILIZE?

Farmer Fred  

We like to answer your questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. Danny writes in, Debbie Flower, our favorite college horticultural professor, and Danny asks about feeding his plants. A question about fertilizer. He wonders that if at a particular temperature, plants don't feed. Do they just hydrate? And then he asks about what time of day is best for feeding the plants, during the day, or at night? Or do they need the Sun to eat? These are very difficult questions from Danny.

Debbie Flower 

Well, he’s a thinking guy. And that's cool. I like to see that. He's right that research shows that above 86 degrees Fahrenheit, plants don't use fertilizer, don't use nutrients, they're just pumping water through their system to keep themselves cool, much like a human would sweat in a very hot situation. He asks if they need sun to eat. Plants do need sun to make food. Plants are autotrophs, meaning they feed themselves. “Auto” means self. And they use nutrients which are gathered primarily through the roots and some from the air through the stoma to make their own food and that food would only happen when the plant can collect the energy from the sun or light of some sorts. So yes, they do only use them when they're making their food. But they all have different strategies. And they'll basically use the same strategy. But depending on where the plant is living and what it's adapted to, it may collect its nutrients at night only. Or it may do it during only some seasons. But when we fertilize, we are just putting nutrients into the growing media. That growing media, in most cases, is the soil outdoors. It can be the soilless mix in a container you have in the house, or greenhouse, or whatever. Or it can be the liquid solution that you're using in your hydroponic system. Whatever the roots are growing in, that is the media I'm talking about. And that's where the nutrients need to be, that the plant will then absorb. We can apply those nutrients at pretty much anytime of day or night. And pretty much any temperature with a caveat of really applying above 86 degrees can mess up the plant's ability to absorb water. So we really want to apply the nutrients when it's cooler. But doing it day or night, it doesn't matter. All we're doing is loading the root zone with the nutrients that the plant then will collect when it's ready to make its own food. If you're growing outdoors in the soil,  in most cases you only need to be applying nitrogen. And if you're using lots of mulch, you may not even need to apply any synthetic nitrogen at all. Using organic matter can apply all the nutrients that you need. But the source of the nutrients for the plant is the growing media.  The growing media, we put the nutrients in, or nature does, by digesting the dropped leaves, creating a natural compost below the plant. Put it in the growing media and then the plant will take that up when the plant needs it. The one caveat is it's recommended we not fertilize at very high temperatures, let's say about 86 degrees. If we get any on the leaves of the plant, we can cause burning there if we applied too much fertilizer at any time. We can cause burning, because the plant only has a limited ability to choose what it absorbs. If the growing media is just completely full of nutrients, and it's above 86 degrees and the plant is trying to just pump water through itself, it may not be able to get just water if there's too much of nutrients in the root zone or too much when applying it. Those are the reasons we don't apply when temperatures are very high. We want the plant to be able to get just water to keep itself cool when it’s hot.

Farmer Fred  

Is this true for both synthetic and organic based fertilizers?

Debbie Flower   

Absolutely. Synthetic fertilizers are very pure for the nutrients you're applying, and  we can very easily apply more than the plant can use. So, we can very easily cause burn. Fertilizer burns. I can remember burning my corn with ammonium sulfate in a garden I had many decades ago. When we apply organic fertilizers, organic fertilizers tend to have a much lower concentration of nutrients in them. And they are in large molecular sizes and have to be broken down by natural processes before the plant can get them. So it's a slow release. It happens over time. It happens with activity of weather and microorganisms and macro organisms like worms that break down that organic material and release those nutrients more slowly. So we tend to be safer applying the organic ones, we tend to have less fertilizer burning with organic fertilizers.

Farmer Fred   

The question people may have if there's this cutoff point of 86 degrees where you do not fertilize plants, if the temperature is over 86 degrees, does it matter if you do it earlier in the morning or is it better to fertilize with declining temperatures  when the temperatures start coming down in late afternoon or early evening? Is that a better time to fertilize than early in the morning?

Debbie Flower 

I can't tell you definitively based on any kind of research whether one is better than the other. You always want to apply fertilizers, especially organic fertilizers, I would put down at any time even at 86 degrees or above, because they are not providing a huge quantity of the kind of fertilizer molecules that will burn the plant. They're providing very little of that and they're providing it as a steady stream over long periods of time. If I were using synthetic fertilizers, meaning basically the kinds you buy in a box that has some high numbers on the front 10-10-10 maybe, and you dissolve it in your watering can, and go around and water the plants, then  I would probably apply that in the morning, personally. But I don't have any research that says the morning is better than the evening. You just have to be very careful about how much you apply. too much throws off a lot of chemical and biological things in the soil, and you're doing more damage than good.

Farmer Fred  

Now, earlier in your testimony, Professor Flower, you stated that one should not apply either synthetic or organic fertilizers if the temperature is above 86. Now you're just saying it's okay to fertilize with organic fertilizers if the temperature is over 86. Where were you on the night when the plants were being fed?

Debbie Flower  

Okay, in the beginning, I think I just said don't apply fertilizer in general, but when I'm saying organic fertilizer, I'm thinking of things like compost and manure, dry manure,  not fresh manures. Fresh manures have a lot of high concentrations. So I guess the cutoff line is not organic versus synthetic, it's the analysis or the quantity of the nutrients that is in that fertilizer if it is high, perhaps above 5%. I wouldn't apply it above 86 degrees ever. If it's low, 1% or below, I wouldn't have any qualms about applying it. And the problem with organic fertilizers, if you buy them in a bottle like fish emulsion or something llike that, you do get the analysis listed on the bottle. If you're bringing in compost or mulch, you don't know how much. That is true with manures, too. Even manures that have dried out and sat in the chicken coop. My mother did that. She brought home the chicken manure that had been in her father's chicken coops for decades. It was very dry. It was inside the chicken coop. She brought it home, put it on the garden and killed everything immediately. So it's really has to do with the concentration of it. It’s typically nitrogen, but concentrations of nutrients in that kind of fertilizer, they're a very high concentration. Don't apply them above 86 degrees. If they're very low, you can apply them any time, because they're so mild that they're not going to cause any osmotic problems or burning on the plant.

Farmer Fred 

So I guess the advice we would have for anybody raising chickens is, if you want to use chicken manure in your garden, let it sit in a pile for a few months.

Debbie Flower 

Yeah, it's better to put it into a compost pile. It contains other things. Chicken manure can really burn things. It is  what we call hot, it’s a hot fertilizer, hot meaning very high in nutrition, and so high that it burns. The form of nutrients that the plant can take in is a salt. And salt means it's dissolvable in water and can move to the plant in water. For example, table salt dissolves in water, and that can throw off the plant's ability to absorb water and that's when we have burn in the plant. But I'm really making it muddier and muddier aren't I?  I learned this before but if we're putting on large quantities of mulch, we don't need to apply any fertilizer at all because the amount of nitrogen in that is ultimately enough.

Farmer Fred 

Ed Laivo has been saying that for years. Basically, he just mulches his fruit trees. He doesn’t fertilize them.

Debbie Flower  

Right.  Do you want to end this piece? 

Farmer Fred

Yes, I guess I should. We learned a lot about fertilization today from Professor Debbie Flower. Debbie, thanks for a few minutes of your time.

Debbie Flower 

You're welcome. I hope it's clearer than mud. Thank you.

Q&A - GROWING TART CHERRY TREES

Farmer Fred  

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. If you have a question, there's a lot of ways to get in touch. You can leave an audio question without making a phone call via speakpipe at speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics. If you want to talk into a telephone, you can do that, too. 916-292-8964. 916-292-8964. You can text us at that number as well, leave some pictures if you'd like. Email? Sure, send it to Fred at FarmerFred dot com. Or you can leave a question at the Facebook, Twitter or Instagram locations (links in the show notes). And we get a question from Indiana, Southern Indiana to be exact, from Rachel. And Rachel writes in: "Hi Fred. I would like to plant a few tart cherry trees on my property this year. I am a beginner at this. So I'm looking for recommendations on what tree would be the most disease and pest resistant. Is there such a thing? We live in southern Indiana in USDA zone six B Thank you." And thank you, Rachel for including your USDA zone and the approximate location where you live, because that helps us answer garden questions. We like to bring in the pros from Dave Wilson nursery to help us out with the fruit tree questions. We're talking with Phil Pursel, and Phil, tart cherry trees...very popular back East and in the Midwest, and they're excellent for cooking, aren't they?

Phil Pursel  

They are. Especially for pies. And that is what you would use, as opposed to the sweet cherry. You'd go with the tart cherry.

Farmer Fred  

All right. And according to Purdue University, tart cherries are about all they recommend for most of Indiana except for some parts, I guess in southern Indiana that don't have quite as cold temperatures, they can grow sweet cherries, but tart cherries are the cherry of choice for Indiana. And according to Purdue, they're saying that there is one variety that does quite well there and it happens to be a rather big staple in the Dave Wilson lineup.

Phil Pursel  

Yeah, so Montmorency is the number one planted tart cherry tree in the country. And it's just because it produces very large, flavorful cherries. It's very productive and you can count on the crop every single year.

Farmer Fred  

The fruit is large. It's got a medium red color, it's tart, it's firm, and the juice is clear. It can be a big tree though, but I would imagine just like in California, in Indiana, you could keep that tree at a reasonable height

Phil Pursel  

You can. Tart cherries are mostly planted on standard root stocks because the tree itself is naturally dwarfing, the Montmorency, would be considered a semi dwarf tree on a standard root stock. So that being said, they don't get out of hand like a sweet cherry can, but you can still keep it down to anywhere from eight to 12 foot size and still get plenty of cherries off of it.

Farmer Fred  

I see that it's recommended for a wide variety of USDA zones, four through nine. And I guess it's self-fruitful, so basically one tree would do it. Would you get more cherries if you planted two?

Phil Pursel  

Yeah, generally speaking. With most fruit if you add another variety in there to cross pollenize. But it does, you definitely do increase the fruit production on both trees, like you were saying, the sour cherries are unique, all the varieties are self fertile. So if you only have room for one tree, then you don't have to worry about it like some of the sweet cherries, that need a cross pollenizer.

Farmer Fred  

So another variety that you may want to plant  in order to get to an even bigger crop, and I see Purdue recommends it, and it's part of the Dave Wilson family of tart cherry trees, and that's the North Star.

Phil Pursel 

Yeah, so the North Star is a much more dwarfing tree. And in areas, especially in northern Indiana, that can have a harsh winter, the North Star is  even more of a hardy tree than the Montmorency is. Then there's also a favorite, especially for people who are making their own wines, is the English Morello. Out here in California, we're finding that variety is starting to really gain popularity, because of different cultures making a very unique wine out of it. The sour cherries are super adaptable in climates. They are a lot like persimmons, where you can grow them down in Southern California and you could grow them in the cold parts of the country.

Farmer Fred  

And I would think that one aspect of growing cherry trees in Indiana is much the same as growing them here. You need good drainage.

Phil Pursel 

You do. One thing that cherry trees must have is good drainage. The cherry rootstock can suffer from root rot. And so that's the one thing to pay attention to. If you have a wet area in your yard, it's probably best to find another location for that cherry tree. And if you don't have it, and that's the only location you have, then definitely what you want to do is plant that cherry on a mound so they can get established, so it's not sitting in wet soils. 

Farmer Fred 

The mound or a raised bed may be eight inches high. Raised beds are usually 12 to 16 inches high. But that will certainly give you good drainage.

Phil Pursel 

Yes, it will. Yeah.

Farmer Fred  

All right. We learned a lot about sour tart cherries today, especially for Southern Indiana. Rachael, I hope that helps. I hope you enjoy the Montmorency cherry. If you want more information about growing cherry trees, visit DaveWilson.com and check out their wonderful  video series on YouTube, as well. Phil Pursel, Dave Wilson Nursery, thanks for helping us out here.

Phil Pursel 

Thanks a lot for having me.

GARDEN BASICS: HELP SPREAD THE WORD!

Farmer Fred

OK, here’s your garden to-do list for the day: 

• Spend some quiet time in the yard. 

• Walk, converse, smell and touch all your plants. Enjoy the texture, the aromas, the color combinations, the structure. 

• Admire the natural amazing artwork of plant leaves, and check both sides of those leaves for eggs or insects. 

• If you’re checking for eggs or bugs on your plants, make sure they are the bad guys, not the good guys, before you shoo them away.  

• Take a seat out there, and watch and listen to the visitors to your yard, from insects to birds to four footed creatures, some of whom may be of dubious benefit.

• And, if you would please, help spread the word to your gardening friends and family about the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. 

• Leave a thumbs up or a comment on the show at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, that let you comment or share, including our home page, GardenBasics dot net. And if you subscribe, leave a comment, share and a thumbs up, as well, at our newsletter, Beyond the Garden Basics, which is on Substack. You can find a link to all of these in today’s show notes. And as always, thanks for listening.

Farmer Fred

Garden Basics With Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and is brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, GardenBasics dot net. That’s where you can find out about the free, Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.