340 Q&A Cross-Pollination Concerns, Best Cities and States for Gardening

Farmer Fred and Debbie Flower discuss:
•The impact of climate and weather on gardening success.

•Understanding cross-pollination and its implications for seed saving and plant breeding.

•The importance of local conditions and location-specific knowledge in gardening.

•Different perspectives on the best US cities for gardening, highlighting the influence of location on gardening success.


Pictured: Bees on Flowering Onions

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Seed Savers Exchange Isolation Guide
Sacramento Digs Gardening - A Gardener’s Summer Tool Kit
Tulle Fabric (Alternate use for Insect/bird protection)
Insect Netting

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Chapters

• 0:24 Q&A Cross Pollination Concerns
• 13:34 Top U.S. Places for Gardening
• 18:34 Want to Leave Us a Question?

Transcript

340 TRANSCRIPT Q&A Cross-Pollination, Best US Cities and States for Gardening

Farmer Fred

Welcome back to the Tuesday edition of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. Unlike the Friday edition, we're dedicating the Tuesday podcast to answering your garden questions. Stay tuned to find out how you can get your garden question into the program. So come on, let's do this.

Q&A - CROSS-POLLINATION CONCERNS

Farmer Fred

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics Podcast, helping us out here. America's favorite retired college horticultural professor, Debbie Flower is here. And Debbie, we get a question from Ricky in North Carolina, USDA zone 7B, which is fairly mild. It's not that cold there, but you can get some cold snaps. 

Debbie Flower

Right. Yeah. You could get some snow. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah. North Carolina. Nice gardening area. I'm gonna start a sscenic bypass right away because I want to do this. Is Sacramento the best gardening area you've ever lived in? 

Debbie Flower

Actually, I prefer Portland, Oregon. 

Farmer Fred

go away. 

Debbie Flower

It's in USDA Zone  8. It's probably an 8B now. Yeah. And we're a 9B. So, it's one zone colder. I love apples. Much better apple growing country. And you do get some, you do get a dormant season around the holidays so you can put your energy into it, making Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner. 

Farmer Fred

Don't you grow mold behind your ears, though? 

Debbie Flower

Not anymore. There were years like that, but it has gotten drier. 

Farmer Fred

OK. I like Sacramento for gardening.  Because you can do it year round. You can grow something to eat here year round. 

Debbie Flower

Yes, that's true. 

Farmer Fred

The summers are pleasant, as opposed to, say, in the hot, humid south, or the desert areas where people just don't go out in the middle of the day in the summer.

And here, at least, especially in the Sacramento area, it's a dry heat. I think that's the city slogan too, by the way. And you get that Delta breeze in the evening that helps to cool things off. If you're in the right place, like you do. 

Debbie Flower

Yeah. And I am. I moved further west. 

Farmer Fred

Yes. You got into the flyway, so to speak, of the wind from the Delta. When you were living in El Dorado Hills, it was hitting the hills first. 

Debbie Flower

Right. We didn't get much of that breeze. 

Farmer Fred

All right. But we had a message on Facebook from a listener who said they moved to Sacramento because we were talking so much about how great it is to garden here. 

Debbie Flower

Well, it is great.  I'm not denying that. 

Farmer Fred

Can you grow tomatoes in Oregon? 

Debbie Flower

There was a year when I first moved there where we didn't get any red tomatoes. Green tomato year. It rained every day in June. But that was the only year that that happened. I lived there seven years. 

Farmer Fred

OK. Well, that's time enough to determine whether you'd want to live there forever. 

Debbie Flower

Right. Or not. My husband couldn't handle it though, because of the cloud cover.  And he's from Tucson, Arizona. 

Farmer Fred

Big difference. If I recall correctly, Tucson is like the sunniest city in America. 

Debbie Flower

 Yeah. It's very sunny. The weather report was if there's a 10 % chance of rain, they went on and on and on and on because that was a big event. 

Farmer Fred

Well, that sounds like the weather forecast here too. 

Debbie Flower

Right. Sunny with a chance of sun. Yes. All right. 

Farmer Fred

Ricky's in North Carolina, which I guess would be good for gardening too. 

Debbie Flower

I think so. 7B. 

Farmer Fred

Maybe a bit humid. But he's in the Piedmont of North Carolina. His question is, “What is a good resource to find out what plants will cross pollinate with each other? I planted all heirloom and open pollinated seed this year, and I'm hoping to save seeds to try and get them used to my microclimate.”

Well, there's a lot of variables to that when it comes to cross pollination. 

Debbie Flower

Right. There's wind pollination, there's insect pollination, there's adjacencies to other crops. 

Farmer Fred

Yes. I think it's all about distance. 

Debbie Flower

It is all about distance because in order to cross pollinate the pollen has to get from one plant to another plant and settle on that second plant. So, yeah, the distance has to be large enough that however the pollen is getting there, be it wind or an insect, it won't make it. In order to isolate the plant, the other way to do it, and I saw this, my son attended Iowa State University, graduated from there in Ames, Iowa, and their big agricultural school. Lots of corn and soybeans in the area. And there was a field when my son was there, full of corn plants, but they were all in, it looked like muslin. Muslin is a fabric, kind of a tan cotton. In Tents, they were completely surrounded. All four sides and the roof. and it went all the way down to the ground, and there was a door, and there was corn in there. And so I assume somebody was researching corn and they needed  the seed to not cross pollinate. So it was a field with many of these tents. But, in order to do that and get seed, which is what, in the case of corn, that's what we eat off the cob. That's where the seed forms. What we are eating is the seed of the corn. Someone would have to go in there and shake the plant when the pollen, which it ripens at the very top of the stalk, is ready and the silks have emerged and they are receptive. So somehow they'd have to get that pollen onto the plant and that would be shaking somehow. Corn is primarily a wind -pollinated plant. 

Farmer Fred

Yes. And that's a tip too. If you're growing corn, be it sweet corn or popcorn, with great isolation, by the way, of those two. You want to grow them in  a square and not a single row. 

Debbie Flower

Yes. For better pollination. You don't know how the wind is going to blow. If they're in a row, then the wind has to blow exactly one way or two ways to get the pollen to drop onto the silks below. In a square or a rectangle, it can blow any direction and pollen will flow. 

Farmer Fred

You could really confuse the wind by planting it in a circle. Go ahead. That'll work too. So we don't know what plants, Ricky is worried about when it comes to cross pollination. So we can only guess at which ones it might be. Which ones in the food crop families would have the biggest tendency to cross pollinate? 

Debbie Flower

Well, if they're pollinated by bees, then according to this wonderful Seed Savers Exchange Guide, it's an isolation guide, if they're pollinated by an insect, they need to be 800 feet to a half a mile apart.

Farmer Fred

everybody has a yard that big. 

Debbie Flower

Right. You better be living in the middle of nowhere because you don't know what your neighbors are growing either. If it's wind pollinated, then they're talking about pretty much the same distance. Half a mile, 800 feet to a half a mile. 

Farmer Fred

So things that are self pollinated, then, you can be just within 20 feet. Yeah. And there are a lot of people who are creating hybrid tomato varieties without very much isolation involved because… well actually, a tomato is a perfect flower, isn't it? 

Debbie Flower

Right, tomatoes can pollinate themselves, but if an insect gets involved, then they could bring pollen from elsewhere. So tomatoes could be grown in isolation in some sort of a, I wouldn't use muslin, but I might use a floating row cover and  isolate that plant so that an insect can't get in there, a flying insect that could get into it, I’m not aware. I mean ants can be pollinators. Other things that crawl can be pollinators But I'm not aware of them pollinating tomatoes. 

Farmer Fred

flies.

Debbie Flower

 flies. Yes. Isolating it from flying insects and then letting it pollinate itself. So that's pretty easy. Self pollinating plants would include barley, which we're all growing right? 

Farmer Fred

Mm -hmm. We love our single malt scotch. 

Debbie Flower

I'm reading off of this list from the Seed Savers Exchange. chickpeas or garbanzo beans, cow peas, tomatoes, and again, an insect can be involved. They're eggplant, same thing, an insect can be involved. Endive, escarole, fava beans can be self -pollinated or insect -pollinated. Frisee, which is a green, it's related to chicory, is self -pollinated. Ground cherries, which are, what are they also called? 

Farmer Fred

Tomatillos? 

Debbie Flower

Tomatillos, thank you. Sure, which are self pollinated or insects can get involved. Lentils, lettuce are self pollinating. Lima beans are either self or insect involved. Oats are self pollinating. Peas and peanuts are self pollinating. Peppers are self or an insect can get involved. Quinoa is self pollinating. Rice is self pollinating. So are soybeans, tepary beans, and wheat. So, everything else on this list involves an insect. So those self -pollinating ones, you don't have to get, they can just be 20 feet from something else. But the ones that are self and insect-pollinated, like tomatoes and peppers, an eggplant, they would need to be isolated. They can pollinate themselves, but an insect might screw up your plans to have them come true from seed.

Farmer Fred

And Ricky, if you're planting a lot of squash, pumpkins, melons and cucumbers, there's a chance for a lot of cross pollination there. You won't see it in your harvest this year, but if you save those seeds and planted those seeds next year, you'd have some interesting crops. 

Debbie Flower

And that's something to know is that it's not just squash to squash or pumpkin to pumpkin. It's all of the cucurbits, which include the cucumbers and the squash and the pumpkins and the melons that will cross with each other.

Farmer Fred

So, you're only gonna be able to grow one of those and in that - And one variety of those. 

Debbie Flower

Yes. And in that case, I think I would isolate and get up in the morning and when the pollen,.. okay, let me explain -  they have male flowers and female flowers. They'll have a bunch of male flowers first and you'll know them because the flower, which are bright yellow, are just on a stem. And then they'll have a female flower, which the stem of that flower looks like the melon or the pumpkin or the cucumber. And typically there will be a male flower also in bloom at the same time. So you have to get up early in the morning, go out and do the pollination yourself. Take pollen from the male flower and put it on the top of the female flower. So in isolation, you could do that and you could maintain the purity of the seed. 

Farmer Fred

And hum a Barry White song while you're doing this, too. 

Debbie Flower

You gotta be dedicated to this.

Farner Fred

 And the temperature has to cooperate too.

Debbie Flower

Well, that's going to determine when the flowers are right. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, exactly. But that's part of the problem when you have all male flowers before you get female flowers. It's either too cold or too hot. And haven't we all heard that complaint before? So everything has to come together naturally. 

Debbie Flower

Right. I guess. 

Farmer Fred

But that reference that you have is a good reference guide to have. The Seed Savers Exchange has that isolation guide.  And we'll have a link to it in today's show notes as well. 

Debbie Flower

So if an insect is involved, as I said, we're also talking about 800 feet to a half a mile and I have read in the past a full mile. So again, you've got to be in the middle of nowhere. 

Farmer Fred

You were mentioning isolation fabrics to use, like row covers. Kathy Morrison in the “Sacramento Digs Gardening” newsletter, which anybody can subscribe to for free. It's got a lot of good garden tips. She had an article about essential tools for summer gardening that you may not think of as essential tools. And one of that is tulle. I had to look it up. T -U -L -L -E. I was thinking, did she misspell Jethro Tull? What is going on here? T -U -L -L -E. And I had to ask my wife, how do you pronounce this word? It's pronounced “tool” and it is lighter and cheaper than bird netting. It's a fabric that's often used in wedding veils, is ideal for wrapping a berry laden bush with clothespins, holding it on or providing quick cover for a newly repotted plant. So that would also keep the insects away.

Debbie Flower

Unless they're really small. Floating row cover has smaller holes than tulle. But yes, they'd have to be very small. 

Farmer Fred

Tulle, though, I would think, with slightly bigger holes would have better air circulation. Right. Yes. So, they would have that going for it. But that's something to consider. And also the price of tulle, looking it up online, if I wanted to cover my blueberry plants, for example, it's pretty cheap. Yes. It's much cheaper than row cover. So it might be worth a shot.

Debbie Flower

 Yeah, give it a try. But for isolating for pollen, maybe only for insects, not for wind. Yeah. yeah. Yeah, pollen is small. Pollen is really small. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah. All right. So those are your warnings there, Ricky. But go ahead and give it a try. And it really depends on which plants you're trying to protect from cross -pollination. You're going to have greater success with some than others, but give it a shot, it's all about learning on the go. 

Debbie Flower

Yeah, let us know how it goes. Yeah, trial and error. It'll be a year, because you're gonna have to do the self -pollination. 

Farmer Fred

Two years. 

Debbie Flower

Two years, yes, and then grow it and see what the fruit is on the plant you grow from the seed. You might like what comes up in year two. You might create something new. Yeah. Wouldn't that be cool? Name it after yourself. 

Farmer Fred

There you go. All right, Ricky, thanks for the question. Debbie Flower, thanks for your help. 

Debbie Flower

You're welcome, Fred.

BEST U.S. CITIES AND STATES FOR GARDENING

Farmer Fred

That scenic bypass we took at the beginning of today’s episode, talking about our favorite cities or areas to garden in, got me thinking that this answer is really skewed, to where the respondents live. And since many of us don’t stray too far from where we were raised, their answers may be limited to their comfort zone.

So, it’s pretty darn easy to go online and ask the question, what are the best U.S. cities for gardening. You’ll get a wide variety of answers. But, consider the source of the information.

For example one of the top sites that come up on an internet search for answering that question happens to be the HGTV network. After all, “garden” is in their name. Their top 10 cities for gardening, according to their article, the “10 Best US Cities for Green Thumbs”, published in 2020, lists these cities: Sacramento, San Francisco, San Diego, Houston, St. Louis, Atlanta, Riverside California, tampa Bay, Miami, and their top city, Orlando Florida. Nowhere in the article is the source listed for this information. Was it a national poll? Who conducted the survey? How many respondents were included in compiling this list.

And you may have already gleaned the bias in this list. Sure, most of the cities are located in what could be called, the Sun Belt of America. What can you do in the Sun Belt besides gardening year round? You can film garden shows year round in states like California, Florida, and Texas. No surprise, then, that many Sun Belt TV production companies have contracts with HGTV and the DIY network. They can churn out the segments, year round.

At least a website such as Storage Cafe, which is a business serving the self storage sector across the United States,  listed their methodology for determining the top 10 states for gardening, at the height of Covid, when a lot of new gardeners found they suddenly had a lot of spare time, at home, to pursue a hobby, in which isolation is fairly commonplace. A total of 1060 people aged 18 and over took the survey, which was conducted at two of storage cafe’s sister websites, rentcafe.com and point2 homes.com. So, the bias here would be that the replies were from people who probably moved around a lot, which at least gives them a larger frame of reference. Storage Cafe’s top 10 states for gardening? Number 1 was Florida, followed by Texas, Ohio, New York, North Carolina, California (sixth? really?), Pennsylvania, Arizona, Maryland and Illinois.

Finally, another website that tackled this where to garden question was another with high placement in the Google algorithm, Reddit, a site built on user replies, opinions and comments on a wide variety of topics. So, the replies here, were from gardeners who probably skewed younger than the average age of gardening - reportedly 44, says the Baltimore Sun newspaper - and more technologically savvy. The question posed by reddit/gardening page: “We’re pondering where to move to and I want gardening success to be a key point. In your opinion, what USA city or state is the most ripe (pun intended) for a backyard garden?”

The replies to this random survey, categorized as “best replies” (and who chooses that is beyond my pay grade), were North Carolina, the Pacific Coast of the U.S., California, southern Minnesota (now, that’s a dedicated gardener!), and a top 10 vote for the Southeastern Piedmont area of North and South Carolina, including the cities of Charlotte, Greenville and Spartanburg. The same area where today’s question about cross pollination came from.

With such a wide variety of answers, I must come to the conclusion that I frequently utter on this show:  All Gardening is Local. 

Definitely, when it comes to gardening, love the one you’re with.

WANT TO ASK US A GARDEN QUESTiON?

Farmer Fred

Want to leave us a question? You’ll find a link at garden basics.net. Also, when you click on any episode at garden basics.net, you’ll find a link to Speakpipe in the show notes, where you can leave us an audio question without a making a phone call. Or, go to speak pipe directly: speak pipe dot com slash garden basics. You want to call  or text us? We have that number posted at garden basics dot net. it’s 916-292-8964, 916-292-8964. Email? Sure! Send it, along with your pictures to fred@farmerfred.com. Or again, go to garden basics dot net and get that link. And if you send us a question, be sure to tell us where you’re gardening, because all gardening is local. Find it all at garden basics dot net.

Farmer Fred

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and it's brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics, it's available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, gardenbasics.net. And that's where you can find out about the free Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.