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Garden Basics with Farmer Fred

Tips for beginning and experienced gardeners. New episodes arrive every Friday. Fred Hoffman has been a U.C. Certified Master Gardener since 1982 and writes a weekly garden column for the Lodi News-Sentinel in Lodi, CA. A four-decade fixture in Sacramento radio, he hosted three radio shows for Northern California gardeners and farmers: The KFBK Garden Show, Get Growing with Farmer Fred, and the KSTE Farm Hour. Episode Website: https://gardenbasics.net

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Garden Basics with Farmer Fred

369 Container Food Gardening Basics

December 06, 2024 • Fred Hoffman • Season 5 • Episode 71

If you are about to set foot into a garden for the first time in the coming new year, or looking to expand your gardening horizons, and you are wondering where to begin, a good tip is to start small…with container gardening. Today, we talk with Pam Farley, who is the writer and photographer behind the highly successful gardening website, brown thumb mama dot com. And, she is the author of the book, “The First Time Gardener: Container Food Gardening.” Even experienced gardeners will pick up a few handy tips on dealing with all the various kinds of containers you can use to grow edibles and flowers.

You’ll find out:

• That not all drill bits are created equal. You’ll find out the best tools and implements to use to add drain holes in wood, plastic, ceramic or terracotta pots.

• Different pots have different shapes: square, round, rectangular, cylindrical, vase shaped. Each of those will look better in certain parts of the yard. Pam Farley will direct you to the right places for those different shaped pots.

• And to keep those pots draining, Pam Farley has some tips and tricks for keeping the water flowing. Today, it’s container gardening basics!

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

Photo: Mandarins in Wood Half Barrels

Links:
Smart Pots https://smartpots.com/fred/
Dave Wilson Nursery https://www.davewilson.com/home-garden/

Book - The First Time Gardener: Container Food Gardening
Pam Farley’s website, BrownThumbMama.com
Episode 168-Award Winning Vegetables and Flowers, Pt 1
Episode 169-Award Winning Vegetables and Flowers, Pt 2
Farmer Fred Rant: Tomato Blossom End Rot

All About Farmer Fred:
GardenBasics.net website

“Beyond the Garden Basics” Newsletter

Farmer Fred website:
http://farmerfred.com
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http://farmerfredrant.blogspot.com
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Farmer Fred Garden Minute Videos on YouTube

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369 Container Food Gardening TRANSCRIPT

(originally aired in Ep. 256)

Farmer Fred

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

You’ll find out:

• That not all drill bits are created equal. You’ll find out the best tools and implements to use to add drain holes in wood, plastic, ceramic or terracotta pots.

• And to keep those pots draining, Pam Farley has some tips and tricks for keeping the water flowing. Today, it’s container gardening basics!

Farmer Fred
There's a book out. It’s called, “The First Time Gardener: Container Food Gardening.” It contains all the know-how you need to grow vegetables, fruits, herbs and other edible plants in pots. It's written by Pam Farley. Although the title page of her book says the author is Pamela Farley, I have a funny feeling she's only called Pamela when her mother might be mad at her. Pam Farley has been gardening and writing, usually not at the same time, since she was in grade school. Those interests collided in 2009 when she started the website, brown thumb mama.com. I bet that name rings a bell with you. She's been documenting her home and garden tips for millions of readers from around the world, who visit her site to learn about vegetable gardening, easy recipes and, making a non toxic home. And when she's not gardening or writing, she might be out camping or reading or otherwise avoiding housework, just like she's doing right now, talking to us about container food gardening. Pam, this is exciting. A book!

Pam Farley
Thank you. It certainly is.

Farmer Fred
And it's a book that is very necessary in the 21st century, what with smaller yards and new gardeners. You combine the two and what do you get? A lot of new container gardeners.

Pam Farley
Absolutely. It's the easiest way to get started.

Farmer Fred
If you know what you're doing. And it doesn't take much. And your book is a good guideline to get started with container gardening because there are sure a lot of myths about container gardening. And we may get into some of that later on. And certainly in your book, you cover just about every type of food you can grow in containers. How about some general guidelines about growing in containers? What do you look for in a container?

Pam Farley
There are some important things to keep in mind. And if you're on the internet at all, you'll see a lot of suggestions that are probably not safe for growing food. There are important things that you want to think about when you're picking out a container. Your container can be a soup can or an old wheelbarrow, or a fancy pot that you bought at your local garden center. But you want it to be big enough for the mature plant. So you're not going to plant a lemon tree in a soup can for example, you want it to be food safe. Now this means, for example, that I don't recommend that you plant potatoes in a stack of old tires. Because there's just too darn many chemicals in those tires. And third, you want to make sure your container has good drainage. Because if your seeds or your plants are in a pot that's full of water and the water can't drain out, then everything's just gonna rot and you're not going to have any vegetables.

Farmer Fred
I think for the beginner gardener who is starting off in container gardening, it might be easiest to start with greens because they grow quickly.

Pam Farley
They don't take up much space. They're very malleable. As far as being successful, they don't require too much sun or too much shade. But like anything in a pot, it requires drainage. And a little bit of chard will produce and produce and produce. You better really like chard.

Farmer Fred
To me, chard is one of my favorite greens because in our hot climate here in USDA zone nine, it's one of the few that will successfully grow in the shade in the summertime. And with swiss chard you can have year round greens in your salad from the garden.

Pam Farley
That's right. And I actually have several chard plants in the front and the backyard right now.

Farmer Fred
I like one piece of advice you give in the book about choosing containers. You say if you wouldn't eat out of it, don't grow in it. So kids, don't eat out of paint cans.

Pam Farley
Exactly. Just because it's on Pinterest doesn't mean it's a good idea, folks.

Farmer Fred
That brings up a good point though, and that is, if you're creative, you can use a lot of receptacles around the house for your containers, as long as they have drain holes.

Pam Farley
Absolutely. I have started seeds in a rotisserie chicken container from the store. Or when we first got married and didn't have two nickels to rub together, I grew herbs, literally, in soup cans on the windowsill. I just pounded some holes on the bottom with some nails. You can use a nail to punch holes in the bottom of cartons, any kind of old colanders, things that you are going to donate or toss out, there are lots of ways that you can repurpose them and use them for your garden.

Farmer Fred
I would think if there is one general rule of thumb when it comes to choosing a container, it's I would rather have a deep container than a wide container.

Pam Farley
That's very true. There are some times when, if you think about the shape of the food, you could get away with planting radishes in a shallow container. But of course carrots are not going to work. I have not found an occasion yet where a container was too big, but you can't have a container be too small. That doesn't mean the plant is going die right off the bat. It just won't get as big as it could have. And it may not last as long, may not live as long, as it would have because it doesn't have enough room to grow and get nutrients from the soil.

Farmer Fred
One of the problems of growing a small plant in a large container, though, sometimes there can be way too much water in that container for that itty bitty plant. And so it better be an easy draining soil for it to succeed.

Pam Farley
That's true. And another good point is you don't want to scoop up garden soil and plop it in a container. I should say for most of us, because our garden soil is pretty heavy. In this part of the state it's got a lot of clay, and it doesn't drain well. It’s better to mix up or purchase specific container gardening soil that's a little lighter and drains better.

Farmer Fred
The one lesson I've learned after all these years of using potting soil is, like you say, it really doesn't matter the brand. You can choose your favorite potting mix or the least expensive potting mix as long as it works. Just be sure it is moist before you plant in it. It is very difficult to moisten dry, commercially bought potting soil because one component that's probably in it is peat moss, and peat moss is very difficult to get wet unless you pre moisten it. And one thing I like to do is, if I'm using a bag of seed starting mix, which I really enjoy doing, especially this time of year, I will dump it into a bucket. There are no drain holes in the bucket. I fill the bucket full of water with the seed mix in it, walk away, do something else, come back either later that day or the next day, and transfer that wet potting soil or that seed starting mix into black plastic pots with drainage and let them drain a while. And then I grab a handful of it and throw it into whatever pot I am going to use to plant in. One thing you pointed out in your book that I would like to emphasize is a lot of people are in the habit of having a large container and maybe it's one of those large, lightweight containers that look like they're terracotta, but they're not terracotta, they're really foam. And they're really light and easy to move. So maybe they don't want to put a full bag of potting soil into it and they'll throw Styrofoam peanuts or pot shards in the bottom of it, just to maybe save some money. There's a lot of things that can go wrong and not the least of which is you just created a serious drainage problem.

Pam Farley
So this is one of those things that's all over the internet. And holy smokes, everybody thinks this is the best thing since peanut butter and I'm going to put some empty two liter bottles or some packing peanuts in the bottom of the container. And this is a common garden myth that has absolutely been busted. And there are some important reasons why you do not want to do this. For starters, your plant will not have enough soil to get enough nutrients. The roots will reach down and then if the roots touch that two liter bottle and the packing peanuts, they're going to be like, “Well I don't know. Okay, I give up.” It's going to change the balance of your pot so it'll be a lot easier to tip over if there's wind or things like that. And the most important part this is the science part. The soil has a specific density and the filler material below does not pull the water. It doesn't want to travel between the two porosities. The water is going to try and stay in the soil. That leaves the soil waterlogged, which is what you were trying to prevent, and that is detrimental to your plants. You do that partial mix because you are concerned about having a heavy, hot, heavy immovable pot that you need to put on little plant skateboards called plant taxis that you can set it on before you fill it with soil and you push all it around wherever you'd like.

Farmer Fred
Here's a lesson I learned the hard way on that. I was doing a demonstration for some old garden show on the HGTV network years and years ago and I was demonstrating how to plant in a wine barrel, a half barrel. And I was drilling the holes and filling it and they brought along one of those plant caddies with casters on it. And I looked at it and thought, “It’s kind of small, but we can give it a shot.” So I set the empty barrel on top of the casters, fill it with soil and the tree, and I’m going to demonstrate how easy it is to roll this around with soil and a plant in it. And I think I moved it about six inches when the whole thing just collapsed. So the lesson I learned is: if you're going to put a half-barrel on casters, get yourself something really heavy duty like a furniture dolly to put it on.

Pam Farley
Yes I've got at my local garden center I got a plant dolly or plant casters that were made specifically for wine barrels and cost as much as the wine barrel. It’s base is the right diameter and it's got like six or seven legs, each with a caster, and they are spread out , so it's very sturdy.

Farmer Fred
That's nice.

Pam Farley
It was very sturdy and very expensive.

Farmer Fred
And if you do planting containers, that's another benefit of planting in containers on a platform with wheels. If you have a citrus tree in there, and there's a frost expected, you can roll it closer to the house to get a little bit more heat at night. And that is probably easier than covering it and uncovering it or trying to figure out if your Christmas lights can keep it warm enough. So tell us about the containers that you use in your food garden.

Pam Farley
I have just about every different kind. One of my favorite containers that I have quite a bit of in the front yard are Smart Pots, which are sturdy fabric pots with handles, and I have them lined up next to the driveway where they get the best sun. I've got some chard and some broccoli in those right now. I've got a few shallow terracotta containers, things the folks next door gave me when they moved away. And I've got green onions in those at all different stages of growth. I have harvested green onion seeds for ages. So every few weeks, I fill up another container and sprinkle some green onion seeds in there. So I'm I'm always prepared. Of course, I have half wine barrels. Let's see, I have an orange tree in one. I've got a couple with blueberries. And I do have some of the traditional resin containers, the pretty decorative containers, but mostly Smart Pots. So I would say, by their numbers, they win hands down.

Farmer Fred
And they last for years. And yes, Smart Pots is a sponsor of this podcast. But like I tell you every week in the commercial, I use them, I've purchased them, I would purchase them again. They last for years. And they don't create root problems either. They air prune because of all the microscopic holes in them. And I just did a test comparing Smart Pots to a ceramic pot and a fiber pot growing roses. And I grew roses in them, a rose plant in each of them for a year. And then I mercilessly pruned those roses back to short stumps just a couple of weeks ago because I wanted to pull the plant out of the pots to see the roots of the plant. And the root system of the Smart Pot-grown rosebushes had four times the weight of the others, and that's just the root part of it. So it encourages roots, you don't get any circling roots. And they don't find their way out and anchor themselves in the ground either. So I was also impressed with the size of the roses that were grown in the Smart Pots versus the fiber pots as well.

Pam Farley
Awesome. Yes, I have used Smart Pots for years. And yeah, I wouldn't have mentioned them specifically, except that I'm real, real happy with them.

Farmer Fred
Like I said they last for years. Some gardeners have been using them for 20 years or so.

Pam Farley
Cool. Yep. Well, that'll be me.

Farmer Fred
I'm still using the original ones I got eight years ago. So there's that.

SMART POTS
Farmer Fred
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Farmer Fred
We are talking with Pam Farley. She's the author of the brand new book, “The First Time Gardener: Container Food Gardening”, and she has more tips for planting in containers for both your backyard and your front yard. Getting back to the subject of drainage and using pots, one of the big problems with using pots is because of their weight, and you set that pot on the soil, there's a good chance it might clog those holes with that compressed soil below. Or if there's concrete below it, there's a chance that those holes could just become clogged, period. And you have some ideas on that, as far as using maybe pot feet or pot toes.

Pam Farley
Absolutely. So there are a few different reasons that the drain holes can get clogged. Of course, there can be roots or the soil just gets compacted or you know, there might be some bugs down there clogging up the holes. And there are a few different ways to handle it. There are fancy little lift gizmos called pumps, toes or pot feet, that you can use that raise the container up off the ground just a little bit, a half an inch is all you really need. Or you can use the very fancy “Piece O’ Brick” which is a highly scientific method or little scraps of wood, things like that. If you raise up the pot, and you find that the water still not draining right, then the soil could be compacted. You probably want to gently tip the container over, than use a chopstick or an old pencil and poke the drain holes a little bit from the bottom up to break up the soil and get things to drain better.

Farmer Fred
Let's talk a little bit about container aesthetics. Now I have no sense of design. But I know most people do. Where would you use cylindrical containers or square containers or rectangular containers in the garden for it to look nice?

Pam Farley
So I confess that I am also… Well, let’s just say I am a vegetable gardener and not a landscape designer on purpose because my key criteria is, will the food grow in this container? So I actually had to consult with some friends who know what they're doing in that regard. And there are some things that can help you arrange your vegetable garden so that it looks the best. Obviously, there are a bajillion different sizes and shapes of containers like you've talked about, including the soup cans on my windowsill. And there are beautiful decorative containers at the garden center. And there are five gallon buckets from the bakery. So there's all different shapes and sizes. There are some things that you can consider for aesthetics and placement so that your garden looks as aesthetically pleasing as possible, especially if you're doing container food gardening in the front yard. And you might be concerned about what's the folks across the street or the neighbors walking their dog might have to say. So if you have a cylindrical containers, like the half barrels, the pretty decorative urns or containers from the garden center, those look great in the corner of the yard. Or may be if you don't have a tree in the center of your yard. You can use one very large, striking container as a focal point. If you have several wine barrels, you can use them as a border. That’s a more rustic look. So square containers which sometimes if you're upcycling different things or if you're building your own wood boxes, because they're square, they have to be placed more precisely. They can be, depending on the material they're made out of, they can be more modern looking, more sleek. But with some styles of houses, it would look discordant to have a craftsman style house with a metal watering trough planter or sometimes it's just an incongruence.

Farmer Fred
I'm glad you mentioned metal watering troughs, because it is one of my favorite containers to use for growing blueberries. Since blueberries require an acidic soil mix, it’s easy to do that with a cattle watering trough that you may have purchased at a farm supply store, as long as you put drain holes in it. But I've been seeing a lot of people using those containers as all their containers in the front yard. And if they're unpainted, if they're at bright silver, it's kind of garish looking. What's nice is that those metal watering troughs can usually be painted with tractor paint. It sticks better to metal. There are like three or four good colors when it comes to tractor paint. You've got Ford blue, John Deere green, International Harvester red, Kubota orange. Things like that. And it just adds some nice, bright colors to those rather stark-looking watering troughs.

Pam Farley
Exactly. And I haven't seen this around town, but I have seen online folks that have ripped out their entire front yard and put it in these industrial cattle troughs. I'm not quite that brave yet, but it can be done.

Farmer Fred
One thing we should talk about when it comes to containers is the fact that maybe the darker colored ones might just be absorbing too much heat on a hot summer day, especially here in zone nine, where we're cooking all summer. What can a mother do, what can a gardener do, for lowering the temperature on a hot summer day? Not a black plastic pot, I hope that you’ve moved beyond black plastic pots. But if that's all you have, I understand, but there are some mitigations to bring the temperature down in those containers in the summertime.

Pam Farley
I would say yes, if all you have are black plastic containers, perhaps you can put them inside a larger decorative container and use a cache pot, which is the term for the fancy outside container, which disguises a more plain inside container.

Farmer Fred
And that would certainly bring the temperature down. Especially if you're trying to bring down the temperature of a black plastic pot in the summertime and not cook the plant that's in there. Because they can reach 140 degrees in as little as a half hour, if the sun is hitting that black plastic pot on a hot summer afternoon. Putting it inside a larger pot is a great idea. Even better is to put it in that larger pot and then fill that gap, that air gap, with wood mulch to give it some more insulation from the heat. Now there are some people who will wrap the outside of the containers with a reflective substance like aluminum foil. And that will work, that will keep the temperature down in the pots. But then again, your neighbors may think that you're signaling in the UFOs, telling them where to land.

Pam Farley
That can be a problem.

Farmer Fred
In your book, “The First Time Gardener Series: Container Food Gardening”, you have some great pictures, lots of great pictures as a matter of fact, but you have a good set of pictures that delineate exactly how to drill holes in the bottom of a wood barrel. And you can refer to that if you want to figure out how to do it. I always get confused though, about when somebody gives me a pot that doesn't have drain holes. All right, I'm gonna have to put a drain hole or two in this. How do I do it? Which drill bit do I use?

Pam Farley
I know my way around power tools a little bit. But I tell you, it pained my hubby greatly to be taking the pictures while I was drilling these holes, because he was like, “Oh, oh, oh, what about oh, hey, oh.” But there are different kinds of drill bits that you need to use and different techniques. Wood is pretty easy. You just use a standard drill bit but if you're drilling like terracotta you need a masonry bit. My best suggestion if you're doing glazed ceramic is only buy them if they already have drainage, because they're very expensive. And if you drill through with your expensive diamond tip drill bit and then you break the pot, you're going to be mad, mad, mad. And of course if you're doing the big metal trough, like I've seen, then you need a metal bit and you have to go really slowly because it's going to heat up. It's tricky, but it can be done.

Farmer Fred
Yes and wear eye protection.

Pam Farley
Absolutely. That is a yes, it needs to be said every time.

Farmer Fred
My wood boring drill bits are my best friends. They hang on the centerpiece of my pegboard in the garage. And they range from about an eighth of an inch diameter up to one and a half inches. And for wooden barrels, I like to use the three quarters inch bit. You talk about, I think, using half an inch, and that's fine if you do enough of them. And the nice thing with wood barrels is you're not going to break the bottom of the wood barrel (usually) with a drill bit.

Pam Farley
Exactly. yes.

DAVE WILSON NURSERY

Farmer Fred

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Farmer Fred
Any first time gardener is going to have issues, and that's okay. You're gardening. It's fun. And for a lot of people, the first garden is their favorite garden no matter what happens. But you may have issues. And in Pam Farley's book, “The First Time Gardener Series: Container Food Gardening”, she has a troubleshooting guide. And Pam, your plant problems section tackles problems with the plants and not only the issue of a lack of production, but also diagnosing issues with stems and leaves and what they look like. Exactly. So one of the things that was really important to me in writing this book was that I wrote it for the beginning gardener as a beginner. There are so many people have come to me and said, “Oh, you know, I think this is a silly question”. But there's no such thing as a silly question. There's no question that's too basic, which is why in the book I talk about how do I plant a seed? I show pictures, step by step pictures. How do I plant a seedling or a transplant from the nursery? Not everybody knows that. And there's nothing wrong with not knowing it.

Farmer Fred
If you've never done it before, how could you expect to know?

Pam Farley
Exactly, exactly, I was talking with a friend who's an expert seamstress and I needed her to replace a zipper. And she said, “Oh, that's easy. That's not a problem at all. You don't know how to replace the zippers?” And I said, oh, good heavens, no. All I can do is hem things. And then we were talking about gardening the next time we got together and I said “well, you know, just put it in your compost bin.” And she said, “I don't know how to make compost.” And I thought, well, that's as easy as pie.

You don't know. And that's okay. I still don't know how to replace zippers, either. But that's all right. That's why God made Velcro. That's why we have friends that know how to do these things.

Farmer Fred
It wouldn't be the same if everybody knew everything.

Pam Farley
Right. And that would be boring.

Farmer Fred
In your experience with first time gardeners, what are their usual panicked questions?

Pam Farley
A lot of the time, online and with friends, I hear from them the first time a corner of a leaf changes color. “Oh, no. The corner of this leaf. It’s, it's yellow! And what am I going to do? Is my plant dying?” No, actually your plant has like 500 million leaves. And it's going to be okay. But I've included some pictures of leaves and sick plants and sick leaves. So if you think, “Oh, my zucchini plant. It looks like there's flour or white powder on the leaves of my zucchini plant? What's that?” You can look in the troubleshooting section and it says, “white powder on leaves. Well, that could probably be powdery mildew or another fungal infection. Here are some things you can do.” Another common question is, “there's squiggly lines on the leaves of my pepper plant.” Well, you can look up squiggly lines. That is probably a leaf miner, which is just a bug that likes to go through and munch through the leaf and makes little squiggly lines. It’s not the end of the world, it’s not going to kill your plants, unless they get carried away. That's something that's different with this book: you don't have to know what the problem is before you look in the troubleshooting section. You don't have to look at this and say, “Well, maybe that sunscald or maybe it’s blossom end rot or maybe…”. You don't have to know those things. You can just look and say, “there's this white spot on my bell pepper”, and you can look it up that way.

Farmer Fred
What I like too about your solutions is you start with the least toxic alternatives and integrated pest management approach. Always, always, always, always. And your garden hose could be your best friend when it comes to controlling insects, like aphids. Just spray them off. Let's start with the least toxic alternative. And unfortunately, a lot of people, when it comes to garden problems like a yellowing leaf or some sort of spots on fruit for example, they may say “oh, the plant needs water.” Not necessarily. Always, always check the container for moisture. Get yourself a moisture meter or stick your finger down there and see what the moisture is like eight inches down where the roots tend to be.

Pam Farley
And one of the things that surprised me when I was researching blossom end rot is it is something that comes up in the summertime. It’s where the base of your tomatoes gets black or leathery. And I learned that sometimes, not always, sometimes it can be caused by fertilizer that has too much ammonia. That interferes with the way that the plant takes up the water in the soil. And so if you can use a organic fertilizer like kelp or fish emulsion, it's going to be easier on the plants and you'll run less risk of OD’ing on chemicals.

Farmer Fred
In the world of horticulture. When discussing blossom end rot we usually like to say it's an abiotic disorder. And what that means is, it's probably your fault, because it's too much water, not enough water, too sandy of a soil, wrong pH of the soil, too much fertilizer. There's a lot of reasons that it could be turning leathery on the bottom of the tomato. And I can tell you don't own a nursery because you haven't tried to sell anything yet to solve these problems.

Pam Farley
That's true, I just take the offending tomatoes and chuck them in the compost bin and think, “doggone it”.

Farmer Fred
Those are the salad tomatoes, you cut off the bad portion and eat the rest. You can very much do that. I liked the fact that you put in there not to add Epsom salts, eggshells and antacid tablets or anything like that in your container garden. It's not going to fix blossom end rot.

Pam Farley
I would like to have just printed out on the cover in 50 point font, but they frown on that. There are some garden myths that I just can't stand and that's one of them.

Farmer Fred
We have done entire episodes on this podcast about blossom end rot (Episode 189, for example), you can look it up and listen for yourself and realize that oh, I'll just live with it.

Pam Farley
Yes, it is not the end of the world. And around here, tomatoes grow so well that if you if you lose one or two, you're going to be okay.

Farmer Fred
That's right. And congratulations, you have put in a picture, a really good picture, of a teenage Ladybug, which looks totally different than the mature adult Ladybug. Most people know that ladybugs are good guys and gals. You want them in your garden to be eating the pests like aphids. But that teenage Ladybug. I always like to say it looks like an alligator in a San Francisco Giants warm up jacket.

Pam Farley
It's a black and orange dragon or a dinosaur. Yes. They're super cool looking. But if you don't know what they are, you might think “oh my gosh a bug!”.

Farmer Fred
Identify all pests before you take action is a wise decision, especially in their younger stages, because they can look totally different. And it's usually just like in real life. It's the teenage ladybugs that eat the most aphids.

Pam Farley
Teenagers. Yes, I can. I can confirm this with the teenagers in my house. The teenagers eat more than everything. So another thing that is really helpful for new gardeners as you might be, you might look at your vegetable drawer in your fridge and say, Oh, we go through a lot of cucumbers, green beans, and lettuce. Oh, shoot. Now I have to try and figure out what kind of containers to get and how big and what if they go together and what if they don't. And so the book has like a quick planting guide for vegetables, fruits and herbs. So you can think about what your family uses. And you can look at this cheat sheet and say Oh, well, you know green beans, we need a three gallon or larger container, and they're going to need full sun. So okay, I know that I don't want to plant them with chard because chard is going to need a little bit of shade. And I definitely wouldn't want to plant them with something that needs full shade. So you can look at the chart, figure out what kind of containers you need. So you're ready when you go shopping and you know when to plant everything, what size container it needs, whether you want to plant it from a seed or a seedling or transplant. Some plants they don't grow as well when they're planted as a transplant or a seedling. The garden center will still sell them to you but they might not survive and then you'll feel bad and it's not your fault.

Farmer Fred
Yes, that's so true. Yeah, the quick garden guide is excellent in your book because you go on a plant by plant basis describing the container size that's needed, when to plant, whether you can plant from seed or whether you need to grow from a transplant, how much sun it needs, how much water it needs, fertilizer it may need, and also how long it'll be until harvest. And that's always important.

Pam Farley
Very important. Yes. And it's worth pointing out that this is a book for beginning gardeners. So things that I at least find more challenging to grow like broccoli and jicama are not going to be in this beginner guide, but I do talk about them on my website (BrownThumbMama.com).

Farmer Fred
You do write about fruit trees, as well.

Pam Farley
I do, because I have eight, at last count ,in my city garden.

Farmer Fred
Congratulations. How tall do you keep your fruit trees? Are they in containers?

Pam Farley
Some of the citrus trees are in containers. There’s the apricot out front. I just got a couple of apples and some of the citrus are in the ground and some are in containers and they all top out at about eight feet.

Farmer Fred
Good for you, they are pretty trimmed. That's called backyard orchard culture, where you keep the trees no taller than what you can reach while standing on the ground, because any fruit that's out of your reach is for the birds. And you even have instructions on how to grow an avocado tree. You're an evil, evil person for suggesting that.

Pam Farley
I know it can be done because Carri Stokes has one.

Farmer Fred
Yes, she does. Oh, avocados. Where do I begin? I tell you what, folks. If you live in Santa Barbara, if you live in Oxnard, if you live in San Diego, Go ahead, grow your avocado trees. For anybody else in California, find the warmest spot possible that doesn't get a lot of wind, or a lot of summertime reflected heat. And you, too, can grow an avocado tree in USDA zone nine and 10. But there are times when you just can't do it. And it really depends on the layout of your home and your yard. And can you grow avocados indoors? Go ahead and try. Who am I to stop you?

Pam Farley
Well, we do talk about microclimates in the chapter about sun and locations. I would argue that you need a very specific microclimate to grow avocados in zone nine.

Farmer Fred
Or you buy the home that's for sale next to Oprah in Santa Barbara.

Pam Farley
Well, I do have a special thank you gift for everybody who has ordered the book after hearing about it on your show. And if they go to brownthumbmama.com/shop, they can enter in their proof of purchase and get a free bonus chapter that's not printed in the book, about making compost.

Farmer Fred
Okay, so if you buy the book, you go to brown thumb mama.com, which is Pam Farley's website, a very successful website I might add, go to brownthumbmama.com/shop and find yourself a way to get a free unpublished chapter.

Pam Farley
Absolutely. Just need your email address and your order number from whatever place you ordered it from. And then it will come to your email.

Farmer Fred
It’s available wherever you get your books. Oh, by the way, is it a Kindle book as well?

Pam Farley
Yes.

Farmer Fred
There you go. You can read it in real life. You can then touch it and feel it; or, you can stare at it on a screen. It's “The First Time Gardener Series: Container Food Gardening” by Pamela Farley, that’s F-A-R-L-E-Y. You want more information? I bet you can find more information about the book at BrownThumbMama.com

Pam Farley
Absolutely.

Farmer Fred
Pam Farley. It's been a treat talking to you.

Pam Farley
I'm tickled to be here, Farmer Fred. Thank you so much.

Flashback Episode: Award-Winning Vegetables to Grow

Farmer Fred

Thinking about which vegetables and flowering to grow now? There are plenty of cool season crops that can grow and mature between now and Memorial Day (and beyond).

From the archives, give a listen to Episode 168 of the Garden Basics podcast, Award Winning Vegetable Varieties to Try” with Sacramento County Master Gardener Gail Pothour. And Episode 169, More Award Winning Plants. Diane Blazek of the All America Selections lists the flowers and vegetables that are recent national award winners for the home garden, as well as talking about those tomato varieties that get rave reviews year after year, such as Juliet, Celebrity and Big Beef.

Dive in the Garden Basics archives! Episodes 168 and 169, Award Winning Vegetable and Flower Varieties. Find a link in today’s show notes, or go to our home page, garden basics dot net.

Farmer Fred
The Garden Basics With Farmer Fred podcast comes out once a week, on Fridays. Plus the newsletter podcast, that comes with the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, continues, also released on Fridays. Both are free and are brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. The Garden Basics podcast is available wherever podcasts are handed out, and that includes our home page, Garden Basics dot net. And thank you so much for listening.