377 Tomato Seed Planting Tips. Rose Pruning Success.

Want bountiful tomatoes and beautiful roses in 2025? Today, we cover essential tips for starting tomato seeds and winter rose pruning. Debbie Flower shares insights on timing for planting tomato seeds and the benefits of starting them indoors. We discuss nurturing seedlings and the advantages of hybrid varieties for beginners. Master Rosarian Charlotte Owendyk explains winter pruning techniques for healthier rose growth this spring.

Previous episodes, show notes, links, product information, and transcripts at the home site for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, GardenBasics.net. Transcripts and episode chapters also available at Buzzsprout. Now on YouTube (audio).

Pictured: Tomato Seedlings

Links:

“Beyond the Garden Basics” Newsletter
Smart Pots https://smartpots.com/fred/
Dave Wilson Nursery https://www.davewilson.com/home-garden/

All America Selections Tomato Winners

Concrete Reinforcement Wire Sheets (6” mesh)

Soil Thermometers

Ep.  374 Pepper Seed Germination Tips

American Rose Society

The Best Roses for America (and rose pruning)(Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter of Jan. 21, 2022)

How to Prune a Climbing Rose

All About Farmer Fred:
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Chapters

• 1:45 Tomato Seed Planting Success Tips
• 28:57 Smart Pots!
• 30:35 Dave Wilson Nursery
• 31:46 Rose Pruning For More Spring Rose Blooms

Transcript

377 TRANSCRIPT Tomato Seeds, Rose Pruning

Farmer Fred:

[0:00] Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by SmartPots,  the original, lightweight, long-lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount. That's SmartPots.com slash Fred.

Farmer Fred:

[0:20] Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, well, you've come to the right spot. 

Farmer Fred

It takes about eight weeks to grow a tomato plant from a seed to a size that's suitable for planting in the ground. And for the warmer zones of the country, February is the month for starting tomatoes from seed. Now, why do you want to go to the bother of planting seeds of tomatoes when nurseries will soon be getting in some tomato plants? Debbie Flower, America's favorite retired college horticultural professor, says there are lots of good reasons, including the choice of hundreds of different varieties of tomatoes to choose from with outstanding sizes, flavors, and colors. And Debbie has tips for growing tomatoes from seed to help ensure that you'll have a great 2025 garden tomato season. February, by the way, is also rose pruning time for USDA zones 7, 8, and 9. Master Rosarian Charlotte Owendyk tells us how to do it and how to protect yourself from all those prickles.

 It's all in today's episode number 377, tomato seed planting tips and pruning roses. We're podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutalon jungle in suburban purgatory. It's the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast brought to you today by SmartPots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let's go.

TOMATO SEED PLANTING TIPS

Farmer Fred:

[1:49] Debbie Flower is here, America's favorite retired college horticultural professor. We're planting tomato seeds in the dead of winter. Why? Because it takes weeks for that plant to get to a size that you can safely transplant into the garden. You may be doing all of this on a counter in your house or in a greenhouse if you have it. But the fact of the matter is, when you grow tomatoes from seed, seeds that you purchase from either your local nursery or a catalog, you're going to find a lot more choice, a lot more varieties, a lot more taste than the number of varieties that you're going to find at a nursery or, heaven forbid, at a grocery store that are already selling plants. And by the way, oh, by the way, maybe we should get into this one right away, because more and more nurseries are bringing in tomato plants in the dead of winter. Way too early. Way too early. These are tomato plants that have been moved straight from a greenhouse somewhere in Florida or Southern California and are now plopped down into a nursery. If they're lucky, they are indoors. If they're not lucky, out in the elements in the wintertime. But February is not an uncommon time for tomato plants to start appearing in nurseries here in California. And it's still way too early to be sticking those in the ground. So you'll need to give those some tender, loving care indoors as well. We'll talk a little bit about that as we go on here talking about tomato seeds. And I think that's the big benefit, really, Debbie, of planting tomatoes from seed is the number of varieties that you can find. 

Debbie Flower:

Yes. It's just amazing. And you know how they've been cared for. We often here in Central California often get a warm spell in February and air temperatures are quite warm. They can be 80 for a day or two. And people say, oh, it's time to plant tomatoes. But the thing that's critical when you're planting tomatoes is soil temperature, not air temperature. Soil temperature is reflected in night temperature. And so you don't want to put a tomato out in the garden until night temperatures settle at or above 50 degrees. Doesn't mean one night of 50 degrees. It means a week of 50 degrees or more. Or go out and sit on the soil where you're going to plant the tomato in a pair of shorts and a t-shirt. And if you can stay there for 10 minutes... Then the soil's warm enough. 

Farmer Fred

Or wear nothing if you want. It's up to you. Depends on your yard. Depends on the laws in your neighborhood, I guess. Yeah, soil temperature, for a lot of people, is difficult to figure out. Soil temperature can be determined by using a soil thermometer. And there are now Bluetooth devices you can buy that measure the soil temperature. And you can read that temperature from indoors on a gauge while it's sending its signal. And usually those devices have prongs on them that are about six inches, eight inches long that can tell you what the temperature is at that level of soil, even though the seed itself is going to be planted in soil that's, what, a quarter inch deep? Right. But the roots go down. The roots go down. The reason for that, then, for knowing the soil temperature at six to eight inches, and if the plant does produce roots quickly.

Debbie Flower:

[4:53] You want the soil temperature down there to be a welcome mat for those roots. For those roots, yeah. So, there is that. You've got the Bluetooth, and you've got the old thermometer that you can use. A lot of people like to use nighttime temperatures to be that gauge for when to set out tomato plants in the yard. 50 degrees is the old rule of thumb. It is. When the nighttime temperatures are steadily, not just for one night, but steadily in the 50 or above range is the time for planting tomato plants. 

Farmer Fred:

[5:20] Yes. All right. But for seeds, you want to start them now. And they prefer warmer temperatures than that 50 degrees. Yeah. When you plant a tomato seed, I would think you would want a temperature in the 70s. Yes. Right around room temperature. Yeah. Yes. And so by starting them indoors in controlled conditions, you get a jump on your season. Right. And they prefer temperatures around 70, 75 degrees, which you can achieve with a propagation mat, heating mat, and get that started. A lot of people tend to start too many seeds at once.

Debbie Flower:

[5:56] I'm guilty. Yeah. We all are. 

Farmer Fred

And I end up leaving a lot of tomato plants out on the front yard.

Debbie Flower

 And I'll bet your neighbors count on that. 

Farmer Fred

Yes, they do. Year after year on April 28th, they expect to see tomato plants out there, the orphans. Right. I mean, obviously, I have first choice, but still. There are more than you need. Yeah. And I get a lot of nice compliments from people. Great. That was a great tomato plant you gave me. Oh, which one was it? Well, I don't know. 

Debbie Flower

Well, that's a good point. Labeling your seeds when you're getting to start them. Yeah. All tomato seedlings look alike. Yes, they do. Pretty close. There's a couple of differences in the leaves. But we often, when I was teaching and the students were growing the plants and transplanting them, And we often ended up with a, I don't know what it is, tomato. And we'd sell those for real cheap price. You just have a question mark on it. Right. Yeah. It's easy to get it mixed up. Very easy. Yeah. They all look like peppers too. So when you go to plant your tomato seeds in containers or in flats.

Farmer Fred:

[6:57] So when you go to plant your tomato seeds in containers or in flats. I would recommend that you keep the same variety of tomato per flat or per container. Yes. And buy a packet of those white little seed markers. 

Debbie Flower

Yes. Plant markers. And write on them with pencil. Yeah. The date you planted it. Yes, that's helpful. Yeah. So, you can realize, why is it taking so long for it to germinate? You actually won't be asking that question about tomato seeds. You will about pepper seeds. Right. But tomato seeds, what? I think seven, eight days. Yeah. It's not uncommon. Sometimes even less. Yeah. So they will be up in a week and they grow quickly. They do. And I'm not saying when you first see it, plant it. But I think when it comes to planting tomatoes from seed, watch the size of the container and give it bigger containers throughout its growth stage. Yes. If you plant it in a four-inch container to start off with that seed, and all of a sudden you've got a foot of growth or eight inches of growth. I would get it up to a bigger pot, maybe even a one-gallon size.

Farmer Fred:

[7:58] And that's a good tip. Our friend Don Shor of Redwood Barn Nursery offers this tip every year, and it's a good tip, too. If you buy tomato plants at a nursery and you're not going to be planting them that day, especially if they're in six packs and they do sell tomatoes in six packs, what you're going to do with six Early Girl tomatoes, I have no idea. But still, get them up into bigger pots immediately if you're not going home to plant those right away. Have that set up before you even go out and buy. If you know you're going to the nursery to buy tomato plants, have some bigger containers, potting soil lined up, ready to go to get those young plants out of that little six-pack into each of its own nice-sized container. Would you go from that little teeny container in a six-pack into a one-gallon container, or would you have an intermediate step of a four-inch pot? 

Debbie Flower

Well, I would do an intermediate step, partially to save media and save room. Yeah. There are people who would go right to the number one and do it successfully. The problem with moving a plant into a container, much bigger container too quickly, is water. That you water the container and typically water till water comes out the drain holes in the bottom. Which means that hole, if you're going from into a one, that's about, what, 10 inches tall?

Debbie Flower:

[9:15] Yeah. And you've got this little plant at the top. Maybe the roots are in the top two inches. That eight inches or seven or eight inches below the root system just sits there saturated. And you do that often enough and the media in the container starts to rot and it actually produces gases that are poisonous to plants. 

Farmer Fred

Ouch. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we talk about this a lot about little plants in big pots and the fact that, well, it could drown. It could. Right. 

Debbie Flower

So I would go from the little six pack to a four inch and then, a six inch, which a number one is typically about a six inch. And then I want them in the ground. I would rather put them in the ground at the four inch container size. And that timing would be about six weeks before. My experience is eight weeks. Eight weeks. Okay.

Farmer Fred:

[10:05] Okay. Mine too. I prefer to wait eight weeks. Yeah. I want a sturdy plant. I don't want a wimp. Yeah. But people are planting earlier and earlier here in California. I don't know if that's true nationally or not. But I used to joke, and I tried to make it my lasting legacy here, that official tomato planting day in Sacramento is April 28th, which is my birthday. It was perfect weather-wise for that because by April 28th, the soil temperature is definitely warming up. It's into the upper 50s to low 60s. The days are longer. It's a nice time. But then, you know, climate change happened, I guess. Or people just got antsy or they figured, well, if tomato plants are in the nursery in February, I guess it's time to plant. And they think, oh, April, that's too late. No, it's not too late. But people have pushed that date back to at least early April, if not March, for planting their tomatoes outdoors, in which case they need protection. 

Debbie Flower

In my mind, our classic last average frost date is the middle of March. It's probably moved earlier in the month than that. I wouldn't expect my soil to be 50 or 55 degrees by the middle of March. 

Farmer Fred

No, the angle of the sun, the length of the day, it all plays against that soil getting warm enough for that. So basically, if you know your frost dates, try to plant it so that when you plant your seed and give it eight weeks of growth, it'll be around that date.

Debbie Flower:

[11:32] And where's the plant going to be in the meantime? Well, you started it per the seed starting tips we talked about in the pepper episode (Ep. 374). 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, basically. And we should reemphasize in a seed starting mix. 

Debbie Flower

In a seed starting mix in a warm place, about room temperature, 75 degrees, kept it moist until it’s germinated, then you provided wind and light to that baby plant. And when it gets up to have least two true sets of leaves. The first leaves that come out are called cotyledons. They are seed leaves. Then you'll get true leaves. And if at that point you can move it up to a larger container if you want, but still in the warmth, still in the wind, still in the strong light and let it grow somewhat bigger. And then when it's getting close, when you have about a week or 10 days before soil temperatures warm up, then you can start the hardening off process. And after that, it's going to go in the ground outside. If you are growing your tomato plants indoors, and we talked about this in the pepper episode about putting a source of light, fluorescent lights, LED lights, as close as possible to the plants.

Farmer Fred:

[12:39] But a lot of people say, I'll just put it in a sunny window. If you put your tomato plants in a sunny window, you want to rotate that container every day, maybe a quarter turn, because otherwise it'll start leaning way over. As it is, they're going to start leaning way over anyway.

Debbie Flower:

[12:55] And yeah, that light through a south-facing window may not give you the results you really want. It's really not as – the light there, we used to do a lab. I did a lab with the students with light meters, and the light outdoors in a sunny spot is much, much stronger. The light meter can measure that than it is indoors on that same side of the building.

Debbie Flower:

[13:17] Below, just below the window, it's almost darkness as far as a plant is concerned. So you really do need additional light to get it strong enough that the plant will grow and be sturdy. 

Farmer Fred

Going back to choosing which tomato varieties to grow, a lot of people hear about heirlooms and they want to grow heirlooms. If you're a beginning gardener and this will be the first time you're planting tomato seeds, I would definitely recommend choosing hybrid varieties because They're usually more successful. They're more adapted to climates. They're more adapted to disease resistance, especially, and also tomato production. I won't say heirlooms are for experts. You can try one or two heirlooms, but for the majority of the tomato varieties you choose, start off with hybrids and you can find some very successful hybrids. To find out which ones are most successful in your area, ask your local nursery owner which ones do the best.

Debbie Flower:

[14:19] Or talk to your cooperative extension, your cooperative extension or local master gardener program. 

Farmer Fred

Or ask your neighbor. Right. Yeah, especially if they gave you one last year. You're right. One that you really liked. 

Debbie Flower

There are some that on the seed packet will say all America selections. Those are good bets to start to try. They should grow vigorously for you. They are seeds that are developed by breeders. And then they're given to test farms. I know a community college in Oregon that does it for that area all over the country. They're grown all over the country. Iowa State University does it for Iowa. They grow many, many, many things and they report on what they're growing. And the only the ones that do well everywhere get the designation of All-America Selection. And it's not just that they grow a big plant and they don't get a lot of diseases. It's also the flavor of the fruit and the quantity of the fruit and all of those things. So All-America selections are a good bet. They do vegetables and they do flowers. So if you're looking at seeds and it says AAS winner, that's an All-America selection. And those are good ones to try.

Farmer Fred:

[15:28] Online, if you just do a search for All-America selections, it'll probably pop up. Among the AAS winners over the years, some of my favorites have included, if you like a large tomato, Big Beef is an AAS winner. Celebrity is a great choice. Chef's choice is a very popular choice these days. In fact, there have been several chef choice winners that have earned the AAS seal of approval, if you will.

Debbie Flower:

[15:57] And an interesting thing about a lot of these is they say F1 right after them. That means they're hybrids, that the seeds in that packet were produced by crossing two tomatoes that are very different from each other. So the pollen came from one tomato and it was planted on the flower of another tomato. And you grow them and you get the wonderful offspring. If you were to save seeds from them, then the next generation will not necessarily come true to seed. About three quarters of them will look like the plant you grew, the All-America Selection F1. A quarter will be nothing like it. If you save seeds again, the likelihood of getting the same plant as the F1 is very, very different. It's interesting to do. I've done it just to see what you get, but you're not going to get the one that you started out with, the All-America Selection F1.

Farmer Fred:

[16:52] Yeah, the varieties I mentioned were basically larger tomatoes. If you have children, I would suggest you plant some cherry tomatoes because or if you've never grown tomatoes before, cherry, I won't say a cherry tomato is bulletproof as far as growing it goes, but it's certainly going to be more prolific than a lot of other choices. They sure are productive and easy to pick and eat without even going in the house. Yeah. One of the popular ones that's an AAS winner is the Juliet tomato, which is a little bit bigger than a cherry tomato. Not by much. It's referred to as a grape tomato. So it's just a bit bigger than a cherry tomato. But there are larger plant and smaller plant varieties you can choose from. There are even some that are meant for containers for a patio. And one is called Patio Choice, which is a yellow cherry tomato, which is very interesting. There are ones with stripes like Striped Zebra. That, too, was an AAS winner. another popular little one.

Debbie Flower:

[17:50] You can almost bet if it has the word sugar on it, it's probably a cherry tomato because the cherry tomatoes are the sweetest. Yes, they are. I grew Juliet this year, and the first crop I got was too sweet for me, believe it or not. As the plant aged and probably as it stressed a little more, I like the flavor better. I like an acidic tomato. Yeah, that's the other thing that you'll find out, that not all tomatoes taste alike. And when people refer to the acid taste, well, the only way you can compare it to is to have a sweet one. 

Farmer Fred

Right. And the sweet ones can be a little – sometimes in this business, they're called sugar bombs.

Debbie Flower

[18:28] And that's why kids like them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. And it gets the vegetable in them, so why not? 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, it's not M&Ms. You know, this is the real thing. So, the smaller cherry tomatoes are the sweetest. The bigger ones, slicing for sandwiches, great. As far as production goes, this is another reason why these hybrids are better than a lot of heirlooms. Heirlooms might produce just a few tomatoes and only produce them once, whereas a lot of these hybrid varieties can produce all season. And I guess that goes to a discussion of when choosing tomatoes, determinant versus indeterminate.

Debbie Flower:

[19:03] Right, right. Determinant means that the height and size of the plant is predetermined. It'll just grow up to that size and height and then produce a crop. I have a lot of tomatoes all at once, so it's great if you're making ketchup or tomato soup or sauce and freezing or canning. And then after that, in our climate anyway, we continue to get a tomato now and then, but that major crop comes all at once. They tend to be smaller plants. I like to cage all of my tomatoes because the fruit itself is heavy, and sometimes the plants, if they're not caged, will just lay on the ground, and that results in insect and disease problems. So, I like to keep them sort of contained in a cage and sometimes I'll hang the, I push the branches, the new branches back into the cage so they're all contained. And when the fruit starts getting heavy, use the bars in the cage to hold the fruit up. And then indeterminate means that it'll grow forever.  The size is indeterminate. Nobody knows how big it'll get. It'll grow and produce fruit and grow and produce fruit and grow and produce fruit until it's killed, typically by frost. Not the owner who's ticked off. Right. I actually had tomatoes when I lived in Tucson, Arizona, and they lived over from one year to the next. Whoa. Peppers as well. Yes. And so the plant wasn't killed. That stopped it from growing and producing fruit. It just got too cold. Tucson does get cold in winter. So the nights especially. So it just sat there. The plant just sat there in its green state, and then it started growing again the next season. We should point out that in Arizona, 

Farmer Fred

Tucson's a little different than Phoenix. Phoenix gets a lot hotter. 

Debbie Flower

Yes. And their tomato planting season, I think, is in January. Well, yes. In Tucson as well, the middle of the summer, the plants just sit there and suffer. Yeah. And they often shade them to get them through that period of time. 

Farmer Fred

All gardening is local, and especially when it comes to tomatoes. So, if you know gardeners in your neighborhood who are growing tomatoes successfully, find out what tricks they're using and replicate their skills. 

Debbie Flower

I wanted to say, though, that the cherry tomatoes, even though the fruit is small, the plants often are huge. Yes. So you need a big cage, not the little one. Fred calls it the pepper cage, the three foot tall one that you get at the garden center. That's too small for an indeterminate tomato. 

Farmer Fred

You can make your own tomato cages out of what's called concrete reinforcement wire. Lowe's or the Home Depot go to the aisle, usually the last aisle in the store where they have the rough and tough building supplies of concrete and bricks and that stuff. And you will find sheets of concrete reinforcement wire that's meant to be put down on an area that you are making a walkway or a driveway to basically hold it in place. But you can buy these four by five sheets and then you can bend them in a circle. You can secure them with zip ties. That's the easy way to do it. And all of a sudden, you've got this very nice cylinder that is usually four feet tall, maybe five feet tall if you do it the other way, that can last for most. 

Debbie Flower

It will still fill that cage up and cascade all over it. But at least it's a good starting point. Well, and it's strong enough that when the plant leans on it, the cage doesn't fall over.

Farmer Fred

Well, it depends. 

Debbie Flower

You've had some go over?

Farmer Fred

 Oh, yeah, sure. Do you anchor them? Yeah, I do. Okay, I anchor mine too. Yeah, you know, I'll stick some grape stakes or some one-by-ones in there or some field posts, one on either side, and T-posts, and plop them down in there just to hold the cage upright if it gets windy. 

Debbie Flower

Okay. I use irrigation pins. Metal irrigation anchors.

Farmer Fred

 Oh, the bobby pins. Okay. Are they strong enough to hold a cage up?

Debbie Flower:

[22:48] Yeah. Well, I often use the ones that are…

Farmer Fred

Hold your fingers up to the microphone. So people can see that. 

Debbie Flower

I'm trying to think how to say it. A U, a deep U. But they're- Yeah, six inches long. Six inches long. Yeah. I haven't had any trouble. All right. 

Farmer Fred

And you're doing this in a raised bed? 

Debbie Flower

I have it in a raised bed and I've had it on the ground as well. 

Farmer Fred

Okay. I would think in a raised bed, the soil would be too loose and friable. 

Debbie Flower

Well, that's a problem I'm having. The soil in there, it's a mix with field soil, and so it's heavy. Oh, okay. All right. And it causes different growth. I need to lighten it.

Farmer Fred:

[23:22] Not all tomatoes are red, too. We talked about that patio tomato, the Patio Choice yellow, which is a yellow tomato. There are bigger ones that are yellow, too, that are All-America Selections winners, like Jubilee. I've grown Jubilee for years, and it's one of my favorites to grow. And it's probably a 10-ounce or so tomato. When we talk about tomatoes in ounces, generally the cherry tomatoes are one ounce, maybe two ounces for a grape tomato like Juliet. But if you're looking for a slicing tomato that is reasonable, you're in the eight to 10-ounce range. But there are plenty of tomatoes that get bigger than that. There are one-pound tomatoes, but they are so big, you're planning on eating a lot of hamburgers.

Debbie Flower:

[24:06] Or maybe making sauce. Yeah. When we were talking about the tomato cages made from the concrete reinforcing wire, if you have several tomatoes and are going to use one of those cages on each one, make the tomato cages slightly different sizes in diameter. So make one that's where the ends just meet. And then the next one, the ends cross over a little more and you tie it. And then a whole square, they cross over, if that makes sense. That way in the off season, you can nest them. You can put one inside of the other and it takes up less space.

Farmer Fred:

[24:41] I wasn't expecting you to go there, but that's exactly right. Yes, because I have, they're all basically the same size as far as diameter goes. And I just store them under the house. 

Debbie Flower

I don't have an under the house. 

Farmer Fred

I know. And otherwise, they look darn ugly or you repurpose them in the cold season for things like I do snow peas to grow on them or to hold up anything that might be flopping over for that matter or to keep animals out of a bed that you just planted.

Debbie Flower:

[25:11] Yes. Or, well, I don't know what would be blooming in the winter season, a low growing plant that the birds would go after. But I have used the cages in my garden around plants that attract hummingbirds so that the cats don't sit and attack, just sit and wait and attack the hummingbirds when they come in. 

Farmer Fred

Okay. And I think I talked about, or maybe I didn't talk about in the Pepper episode, about the dollar store wastebaskets I found that were $1.25 each. They are a wire mesh wastebasket, about 10 inches tall, eight inches wide at the top and narrows down to maybe six inches at the bottom. But invert them, turn them over and put them on your newly planted tomato plants that haven't reached that full height yet to protect them from birds and other animals that are eyeing them. 

Debbie Flower

I haven't done that, but I take prunings, thin, pencil-thin branch prunings and stand them up all around the plants. And that's to prevent the cats from going in and using it as a potty and digging my plants out. 

Farmer Fred

Yeah, that too. So, I mentioned that the Jubilee tomato was an orange color. If I didn't, it is an orange tomato. And there are some very interesting choices. 

Debbie Flower

There are deep red, almost black tomatoes, like the chef's choice black. When you buy or when you purchase tomato plants from seed, you have a lot more color choices too. And it's so pretty when you cook with them.

Farmer Fred:

[26:40] Yeah. Or served raw on a salad for that matter. Yeah. So you'll find a wide variety of colors. There is even one out now called the Norfolk purple tomato. Let me tell you my adventure with the purple tomato in case suddenly you have the urge to plant the purple tomato. It is the first GMO tomato available for the home market, genetic modified organism. This is a tomato that has been crossed with a Snapdragon to be a truly purple tomato interior and exterior. Purple tomatoes are commonplace, but it's only the skin that's purple. The inside is red, but the Norfolk purple tomato truly is purple on the inside. The seeds, since last year was the first year they offered it to the home market, they were charging a pretty penny. They were charging $20 for 10 seeds. Wow. Yeah. But being a gardener, you got to try it to see what it is. So I can report back on not only my results too, but I passed them out to a few of my master gardener friends to  try this. And they all thought it was a great idea to try it. Mm-hmm. Nobody came back with their seal of approval on the taste of it. It was pretty bland. Now, it's very pretty, though, with all that purple flesh on the inside. It looks good. It'd be good for a presentation. So maybe if your name is Guy Fieri, you might like it for presentation purposes.

Debbie Flower:

[28:06] But if you mix it in with the others, the tomatoes that have good flavor. 

Farmer Fred

That's exactly what you do is you find some other. And the purple tomato is a small tomato. It's like a grape tomato. So, you'd mix it with a Juliet.

Farmer Fred:

[28:18] Mm-hmm. And a sweet 100. Yeah, a sweet 100 or a sweet million. Right. And yeah, the others will mask the- The lack of flavor. The lack of flavor. So- It's a lot of work to get a bland tomato. Yeah. But they succeeded in a bland tomato. But what none of us have tried, though, is tried to eat a Snapdragon and see what that tastes like. To see if it resembles the taste of- 

Debbie Flower

Well, that could be dangerous. You don't want to go around eating random flowers without doing some research.

Farmer Fred:

[28:48] All right. So there you got it. Tomato seeds, with a lot of scenic bypasses. Debbie Flower, thanks for planting with us.

Debbie Flower:

[28:54] My pleasure, Fred.

SMART POTS

Farmer Fred:

[28:59] Congratulations to SmartPots. They recently won the National Retailer's Choice Award from the North American Hardware and Paint Association. It's in recognition of SmartPots' innovation and quality in the gardening world. And there's good news for wholesale and commercial growers who use SmartPots. A recently published study by the University of Florida said that the initial production of plants in SmartPot Fabric containers resulted In marketable plants three months earlier, saving approximately $1 per plant in production costs, thereby opening up production space for another crop. SmartPots, they're proudly made 100% right here in the USA. And they're BPA-free and lead-free, making them safe for growing vegetables and other edibles. They're available in sizes from one gallon to 1,000 gallons.

SmartPots are available at independent garden centers as well as select Ace and True Value hardware stores nationwide. And you can buy SmartPots online. Just visit SmartPots.com slash Fred. And don't forget that slash Fred part. On that page are details about how you can get 10% off your SmartPot order by using the coupon code FRED, F-R-E-D. Just apply at a checkout from the SmartPot store. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information about the complete line of SmartPots lightweight, colorful fabric containers. And don't forget that special Farmer Fred 10% discount. It's SmartPots, the original award-winning fabric planter. Go to SmartPots.com slash Fred. 

DAVE WILSON NURSERY

Farmer Fred

Now's the time to plan the what and the where of what you want to plant for the future. And to help you along, it pays to visit your favorite independently owned nursery on a regular basis throughout the fall and winter just to see what's new. And coming soon to that nursery near you is Dave Wilson Nursery's excellent lineup of farmer's market favorites. Great tasting, healthy fruit and nut varieties. They'll already be potted up and ready to be planted. And we're also talking about a great selection of antioxidant-rich fruits, such as blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, goji berries, grapes, kiwi, mulberries, gooseberries, figs, and pomegranates. Wholesale grower Dave Wilson Nursery has probably the best lineup of great-tasting fruit and nut trees of any grower in the United States. Find out more at their website, DaveWilson.com. And while you're there, check out all the videos they have on how to plant and grow all their delicious varieties of fruit and nut trees. Plus, at DaveWilson.com, you can find the nursery nearest you that carries Dave Wilson's plants. Your harvest to better health begins at DaveWilson.com.

“PRUNECIPALS” - ROSE PRUNING FOR A BIGGER BLOOMING SEASON

Farmer Fred:

[31:46] Well, if you're looking out your window now at your garden, you might have rose bushes. And this time of year, if you live in USDA Zone 9, they could use a little bit of help. And for everybody across the country, sooner or later, maybe by late winter or early spring, March or April, You want to do something with your roses. You know what your roses would appreciate if they're ready to be pruned is just that, a pruning. But why prune? Let's talk with a master rosarian. She's Charlotte Owendyke, master rosarian of the Sierra Foothills Rose Society. And Charlotte, it's a pleasure to talk with you. And I wanted to talk with you in particular because the Sierra Foothills Rose Society, people listening may say, well, that this is just going to be about cold weather snow roses. Well, no, the Sierra Foothills actually extend from about 100 feet elevation from the rice fields of Western Placer County all the way up to Lake Tahoe. So poor Charlotte has to tackle questions that range from people who are sweltering in the heat to people who are buried in the snow. So who perfect than for the Garden Basics podcast to talk to Charlotte Owendyke about roses? And Charlotte, it is rose pruning season here in California. Why prune a rose?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[32:59] We prune them because roses will keep on growing. And most of us have a smaller yard and we want to size and keep them to shape. We want to get rid of the dead or diseased canes that are in there. And we want to reduce the number of canes because then our blooms will be bigger. And we also want to get rid of the older canes. So we have more vigorous canes. So they produce a lot more roses on each cane. So that's the primary reason we prune.

Farmer Fred:

[33:32] It's pretty easy, too, to tell the difference between a young cane and an old cane, isn't it?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[33:37] Oh, yeah. I like to make a joke. It's the gray beards or the gray haired ones, gray color ones are the ones you want to get rid of. So, and it makes a tremendous difference. My sister is 94 years old and I go down there every January. She lives in Southern California and her roses were looking really bad. Her husband had done it for a while and they just topped them. They were basically all gray canes. I looked at them. I didn't know how to prune them. So I just took the worst of the worst gray canes and then I did the regular pruning for sizing and all that kind of and reducing crossing canes and stuff. And the next year I came back, it was just a little bit easier to prune because I had some brand new green canes that came in the place of the one that I got rid of. So essentially in about five plus years, I went from all gray canes to all green canes.

Farmer Fred:

[34:38] The green canes will produce flowers then, but when that cane gets old and gray, does it have less ability to produce flowers?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[34:45] Yes, yes. It just doesn't have the vigor. It's just like they're not as studly.

Farmer Fred:

[34:51] Poor canes. I feel sorry for them.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[34:54] It's not as vigorous. You take a look at a puppy. They can run around and do a lot of things. But as anything gets older, the xylem, which brings the water up and the food, it's not as vigorous and so it doesn't produce as much bloom. So we have learned over time that we have to get rid of the gray canes and you don't want to do them all at once. You just do maybe one a year and then over time you won't have gray canes anymore because some of these canes that I've seen on roses that I've gone to other people's yards, all they do is top it off. So these canes are maybe two, three inches in diameter and they're gray woody. Well, they maybe produce two or three roses a year and they don't bloom at all the rest of the season. They just do a little bit in the early spring and that's it. To me, my roses are blooming all year round because I want those green canes because I want them to work hard for me.

Farmer Fred:

[35:56] All right. The only problem with all that are these little things that protrude from each of those canes. Some varieties have more than others. And of course, we're talking, I won't say thorns, even though I would like to call them thorns.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[36:11] I'm so proud of you.

Farmer Fred:

[36:12] Thank you. Thank you. Can I call them prickles instead?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[36:15] Yes, that's the biological term for them. They're not thorns. It's just where they erupt from the epidermis on the skin of the plant. And there's a differentiation. So they're called prickles. But I don't care. They're still pokey things. There are a few roses like Memorial Day that have very, very few prickles. It's amazing that you can touch almost all along there and there's just a very few prickles on the whole plant.

Farmer Fred:

[36:50] So how do you protect yourself from getting pricked by the prickles?

Charlotte Owendyk

[36:54] Well, we wear leather gloves. When I'm doing a really big, bushy plant, I like to wear gloves that come up to my elbow. And I look for gloves that where my hands are, it is goat skin. And goat skin is a little tougher and it's harder for those prickles to punch in through it. And then the rest is done with cowhide. And that's what I wear. But sometimes when the plants are small and they're not that, I don't have a cophony of tons and tons of canes. I just wear short little leather gloves on my hands. And I watch what I do. Since I've been doing this for many years, my husband, he goes out there, he gets near a rosebush. He gets stuck by a prickle. But I very seldom do because I know where I look for it and I've trained myself to look for it. But then I reach for places like just underneath the flower or top of a cane. There are not going to be as many prickles there or they're going to be smaller. So that's one thing you really got to have is you've got to have gloves, leather gloves.

Farmer Fred:

[37:58] What else are you wearing? In my experience with pruning roses, I have discovered that if I wear a nylon jacket, it's better for me than wearing a cotton shirt or something like that.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[38:09] Which will probably get stuck. You know, a sweatshirt or I always wear a long sleeve shirt with a sweatshirt over it. And I don't wear the best clothes because I might get caught on one of those things and get little holes in my T-shirt. And I have a vest that I oftentimes wear. So I always have long jeans on because I want to protect my legs.

Farmer Fred:

[38:28] I am always suspicious of gardeners in nice clothes.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[38:32] Yes, they don't really garden.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[38:35] I use my oldest clothes and I do the SPF 50 t-shirts and they get so thin. I go, well, this doesn't work anymore. It's too thin. I can almost see through it. Yes, I'm a good gardener because I have old clothes.

Farmer Fred:

[38:51] What's in your weapon arsenal? What do you use to prune roses with?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[38:55] Well, bypass pruners and loppers are what we use. A bypass has a scissor action. The blades cross over each other. There's another one that, oh, remind me what their name is.

Farmer Fred:

[39:08] It's an anvil pruner.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[39:09] Anvil, that's it.

Farmer Fred:

[39:10] You don't want that.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[39:11] No, because they crunch the cane and you want to cut it, instead. So that's why you should use a bypass. And the sharper, it's better. So I always recommend that before you go out and begin your pruning, just sharpen with a sharpener, well, a diamond sharpener. And just all those bypass pruners, they have a little beveled edge. You just kind of smooth along the edge about three or four times, five times, and then try it. And you'll see it should cut through a pencil-sized cane like butter if it's sharp enough. And it'll lose its sharpness. The more you have to do, you may have to repeat sharpening it, but that'll make the biggest difference and saves on the wear and tear on your hand. You can sharpen the loppers, which are basically bypass pruners, too, and they'll have a longer handle so you can get a little bit more torque. And those are usually used an inch or inch and a half canes. If you get a larger cane, you may even have to have a smaller version of a reciprocating saw if you don't have the strength. to deal with it.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[40:21] Power tools, yes. And I've got a climber. It's about two inches in diameter. It's gray, a cane. And I've got canes coming off of it, but it's time to pull that out because I want some new green canes coming from the bottom. I need to use a reciprocating saw. And because they have narrow little blades on them, it's easy to cut through it and kind of angle through it with the reciprocating saw. So if you have more than, let's say, 50 roses, you invariably have a reciprocating saw because it's just easier.

Farmer Fred:

[40:56] And this reciprocating saw, I guess it's like a rechargeable, so you're not dragging a cord.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[41:00]  Yes, no cord. Yes, yes. I love those rechargeables, and it works really good for a lot of different things.

Farmer Fred:

[41:09] So people are now wondering, well, how many roses does she have?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[41:12] About 350.

Farmer Fred:

[41:14] You're busy. You're busy.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[41:15] Yeah, but you know what? I'm lucky because it's my form of exercise. I garden for, instead of going to a gym and being indoors, I go outside and enjoy mallards in the backyard, other kind of wildlife. It's just nicer outside than in a gym in my book. So I actually got more in shape when I retired and started gardening full time.

Farmer Fred:

[41:43] Well, I've noticed that all the Rosarians I know are peaceful, loving people. And I think the reason for that is they're taking out all their aggressions on their rose bushes with their pruners and the reciprocating saws.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[41:55] Oh, yes. And you know what? We have another thing that we can do.

Farmer Fred:

[41:58] What's that?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[41:59] It's called shovel pruning.

Farmer Fred:

[42:02] All right. Now we're getting into the methodology of pruning, which is a good thing to get into. The timing for pruning, of course, is important. And right now, people may be seeing little buds forming on their rose canes, and that's the time to get in there and prune. And like I was mentioning earlier, this will be something that people in colder zones will be doing a little later on in late winter or early spring.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[42:26] Right. You normally start pruning after the last hard frost. In our area, our hard frost isn't very hard, so I usually start pruning just around Christmas. And we try to wrap up in the valley area, which is much lower elevations. We try to wrap up by Valentine's Day. But the people up the hill towards Tahoe, they're going to wait till they got a real pass a load of snow. They're doing nothing out there. They're taking it easy and enjoying the treks in the snow. And when that finally melts and they don't have to worry about any additional frost, then they'll take a look at their roses. And then you go for the dead, diseased, and damaged canes. You get rid of all those. And then you basically, when you cut a cane, you look at the inside. Is the center of it nice and white? If it isn't, if it's brownish, that means you've probably had a bore. And you have to go cut a little bit further down the cane. And once you get a white cane, it's perfect. You don't have to worry if it's cut at an angle or anything like that. Most people like to have the bud, which is where if any branch comes out, that's where it's coming out. A bud looks like a pimple. There's a little line where the leaf was attached and right above that is a pimple. And that's where a new cane will come out. So it's really about it.

Farmer Fred

[43:50] No, it's not.  We've hardly scratched the surface.

Charlotte Owendyk

[43:54] Really? 

Farmer Fred

Oh, yes.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[43:55] Well, we can cover size and shape, too.

Farmer Fred:

[43:57] Well, we'll get into that. We'll get into that. Okay. Back up a little bit. I want to talk about where you make that cut. Would you make it right above that pimple towards an outer facing bud?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[44:08] Yes. Yeah. So, usually about a quarter inch above that. And, you know, a quarter inch, three-eighths inch, it doesn't make a difference. You don't want to put an angle where you cut such a steep angle. The bud is kind of sticking by the side and there's a V-shaped kind of a plateau next to it. Just cut it straight across about a quarter of an inch to three inch above that. You're fine. And most of the time we like an outward facing bud because we want to keep the center of the plant open. So it has good air circulation.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[44:42] The roses have to fight against some fungal diseases like black spot and mildew. And if you have more open area, it's easier for the plant. It won't pick up the powdery mildew and the black spot in the center. So that's one of the things we look to have an open structure for. And for example, hybrid teas, they're in a vase shape. And so you want to basically have most of the canes on the outside and no crossing canes in the center. And you want to open in a V shape. And maybe here we would have two to maybe two and a half, three feet tall. If it's a very tall hybrid tea, some of them are. You can tell how tall you want it. If your plant at the end of the season is seven, eight feet tall, you probably don't need to cut it down to two feet. You may leave it at two and a half to three feet. If it's a five foot tall plant or four foot, then it's probably two to two and a half feet tall.

Farmer Fred:

[45:44] We'll get into all these different varieties of roses because we're going to be throwing around some unfamiliar terms, possibly to you, like Floribunda, Grandiflora, Hybrid Tea, things like that. So we'll get into that.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[45:55] It's not hard, folks. Just pick out what you really like.

Farmer Fred:

[45:59] I have a more basic question for you, though. Since you have over 300 roses, do you keep a garden diary and keep track of the performances of these roses?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[46:10] 350 is not that many because I'm out in the garden all the time. But I do have an inventory. I do track which ones. If you belong to the Rose Society or are a master gardener, we ask them to rate. garden roses. And so, if there's a new variety out, we'll rate those. And that's one of the things. How well does it perform in our garden? So, I make notes to myself. Right. That's good. Especially the newer varieties because I want to do a good job. The American Rose Society puts out a book called Handbook for Roses. And it lists, they call it an ARS rating. ARS rating will go from zero to eight. And eight's the very Best. And the really fabulous roses are seven and a half to eight.  And I have a list I was just telling you about a little bit earlier about bulletproof roses. And majority of those are in 7.5 to eight. And they're outstanding roses. And a lot of them have been in commerce for long. They're very disease resistant. I like them because they're vigorous and they produce a lot to bloom.

Farmer Fred:

[47:21] And we're going to get into those bulletproof roses in the newsletter, the Garden Basics newsletter, which has its own podcast. So we'll be talking about that over there. So if you want more information about how to get the Garden Basics newsletter, we'll have a link to it in today's show notes. You can find information about it at farmerfred.com. What I'm getting at is this, the fact that with so many roses, you have to probably in late summer, fall, You're walking down a row of roses and you look at a rose and you say, you haven't done diddly for me.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[47:53] That's exactly what I do. There are some roses I know I'm going to be shovel pruning. And I'm pruning my roses right now. And I've already added two more roses to the shovel prune list. And I basically cut them down. Their canes are maybe two, three inches high. And I'm just going to take my shovel to them when I'm finished pruning and get rid of them at that point. Because they didn't bloom for me. They didn't do squat. Yeah. And if it didn't bloom or it's just, why grow them? I have other things I can grow. I'm a bit of a plantaholic. And so I want, and I love bloom, so I want something that makes my heart sing.

Farmer Fred:

[48:36] Also, it gives you the chance, too, that if you do live in an area where you are beset with fungal diseases, which may be due to high humidity and poor air circulation among your roses, by shovel pruning, removing an entire rose bush, you're improving the air circulation.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[48:53] That's true. That's true. And we have another name that we do. There are some plants that are mildew magnets.

Farmer Fred:

[49:01] I like that.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[49:03] And they attract diseases. The ones that I'm mentioning that are bulletproof, they are very, very disease resistant. In the last 10, 15 years, they have done a lot to improve the disease resistance of roses. In fact, I have very few roses, unless they were outstanding before, that are not the newer roses. Because the newer roses, I don't see the black spot on them. I don't have the powdery mildew. I do not spray. And when I do see it, it means I've had a very wet spring. And I may drop some leaves. But because I fertilize well right after I prune, they put out a whole new growth of green things. And then I don't have any fungal issues, at least where I live.

Farmer Fred:

[49:52] All right. So before we start hacking away here, do one bit of house cleaning here and talk about where people can find this American Rose Society handbook for selecting roses that we talked about earlier. That would be a website like rose.org.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[50:05] That's correct. And it has it's fun. You could sign up for a newsletter that's called Fragrant Roses. And it has a lot if they have the editor on that puts a variety of different articles in there. It's fun to read. It has a lot of drool-worthy pictures of roses. We like to call them rose porn. They also have a little store where you can buy the handbook for roses. You know, I know you have a copy because I gave you some. And it rates most of the roses that are available in commerce. And then it also highlights top rated roses. So if you want, look under hybrid teas, then it lists all the ones that are really the best of the best. They also have, if they have a gamble award, those are fragrant roses. It lists all the roses that won national or even worldwide competition for fragrance. It lists those roses because a lot of people want a very fragrant rose. So it's a guide to shopping for roses.

Farmer Fred:

[51:06] Well, that leads me to a very good question that I get to ask because it's my podcast, and the question is about my own roses. One rose that I definitely have in my garden, even though I have limited amounts of sunlight, but that's getting better, I must say, is the light.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[51:22] I hear you've been getting rid of trees.

Farmer Fred:

[51:24] Yes, yes, yes. And the neighbors have been helping, too. But the Lyda Rose, which I first saw at the Old City Cemetery in Sacramento, I just fell in love with that rose.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[51:34] Looks like an apple blossom.

Farmer Fred:

[51:35] It does, yeah. And it's just gorgeous. It's very productive. It's a shrub rose. And its rating, according to the American Rose Society, is an 8.9.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[51:48] Ah, okay.

Farmer Fred:

[51:49] So that's a very good rose.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[51:51] It's an excellent rose. I have one in the front yard. It's a shrub rose, so it has a much bigger presence. It is about five feet in diameter and about five, six feet tall, and I have to yet prune it. But it's up my walkway to my front door. People look at it, what is that plant? And they go, that's a rose? And I said, yes, it is. And it's just always in bloom.

Farmer Fred:

[52:18] The Lyda Rose is in a focal point in my backyard, and I just love it all spring, summer, and fall. It's a shrub rose, as you said. How do you prune a shrub rose?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[52:29] It's the same basic principles. You get rid of those old gray canes. You get rid of the damaged, dead, and diseased canes. and then you open it up in the inside and then maybe cut it back about a third to a half from the size it was before you start pruning.

Farmer Fred:

[52:48] What if the leaves towards the bottom are turning yellow? Should I worry about that?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[52:54] Well, usually when we have the end of the season, like right now, the leaves all are yellow. After you prune, because we were talking about pruning, but once you finish pruning, you need to strip the plant of all the leaves and then clean up all the leaf detritus and any other clippings that may have fallen around the tree, because that plant material can harbor fungi. And so if you get rid of that, for example, most of the way most plants get fungi is the spores are like little seeds, they're on that detritus in the soil or on top of the soil, any rain comes down, it splashes up and onto the new growth in the leaves. And then you get a reinfection. So what we always recommend, and we all do this, you can use a blower and blow the leaves toward the grass and then pick up those leaves and then toss them out. You want to toss out in your green recycle bin. you want to get rid of that plant detritus.

Farmer Fred:

[54:02] I would think, too, you would also want to switch out the mulch if you have mulch around your roses and get fresh mulch down there.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[54:08] Yeah, normally, fresh mulch or compost, a top dressing on that, because then that smothers. It's another way of protecting the plant. You know, if you add compost and you add mulch, it breaks down and it feeds your soil. And that's long-term betterment of your soil. If you have clay soil or if you have sandy soil, the solution to that is to put in more and more compost. I've put down a shred of redwood bark and that will decompose over time too. And it just feeds the soil. So that's all to a benefit. And in our hot area, it saves for the evaporation of water that we do add. It also keeps the soil cooler so the plants and the roses are happier.

Farmer Fred:

[54:59] What about miniature roses? A lot of people have miniature roses because maybe they don't have much space, but they've got containers and they've got the roses sitting in the containers on patios. Those are small plants. Usually, usually. How far back do you prune those?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[55:13] I actually am fairly, can be fairly tough. They take, they're little tiny, they're twiggy. So lots of times I'll take the thing, the key on all of this. And I think you've been trying to get me to do that. You look at the base of the plant because in a hybrid tea, you usually have a crown because it's made with Dr. Huey as the rootstock. And then they bud on to the plant that you want, like Double Delight or whatever. You look at where that comes out. You thin the rootstock, roots, the canes at that point. But with a miniature, they're on their own roots. and you take a look and you'll have some those miniatures grow really big and they're  blooming machines that's i've always called them blooming machines i like them close to my patio and right next to the concrete they just love the heat and the sunlight they just do really really well but i i reduce it all those canes by probably a third if not a little bit more anything that's really super skinny or older, I get rid of. I get rid of the older ones first, and I look at the base and get rid of the oldest canes, and I cut them basically to the ground. Then it tells me how much I have left. I may cut a few more. I don't want the really tiny little things that are only a quarter inch in diameter. I get rid of all that. That's too tiny.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[56:39] And then you bring them down to size. I have things that are called micro miniatures, but even those, they're usually maybe a quarter of an inch to a half an inch in diameter on the bigger cane. So, You bring it down to about maybe a third to half in size.  Does that help?

Farmer Fred:

[56:57] Yes, it does. Thank you very much. But you brought up another very good point to make, and that is the evil Dr. Huey, who is the rootstock for just about most modern roses, isn't it? That's correct. All right. And sometimes people wonder why their rosebush changed color. The flowers used to be beautiful pink or yellow. Then all of a sudden, these nondescript red roses are popping up.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[57:23] Yep.

Farmer Fred:

[57:23] Sounds like a job for a pruner.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[57:26] Yep. Yep. Those are roses that should be shovel pruned. Dr. Huey only blooms once a year in the first spring blush around April, May here. And it's a dusky red rose. It's a semi-double. It puts out these whippy long canes. The reason they have a rootstock is because it's very vigorous. It brings a lot of nutrients to the root that you purchased, be it Double Delight or Mr. Lincoln or the Pretty Lady. It's good at feeding all the nutrients so you have a very vigorous bush. But what happens when you are pruning, one of the things you need to look at, and I should have mentioned this and I apologize, but if you have what we call a sucker and a sucker is a piece of Dr. Huey that is usually erupting about a couple inches away from the base of your rose, and it has this long whippy cane out. You can't just clip it. You have to dig in the soil a little bit and see where it's coming off a root. And sometimes I say, if it's off that root, maybe two or three inches from the main stem of the thing, cut that root on the side close to the rose and on the side and just pull that piece off. It's okay to cut one little root because you're getting rid of a sucker because that sucker, if you leave it there or just cut the top, you cut it once and I'll put it out three or four canes. And eventually you will lose the rose that you spent your good money for and you'll have Dr. Huey instead.

Farmer Fred:

[59:13] All right. So you can prune out Dr. Huey and still have what your original rose was. Does Dr. Huey have any other telltale signs that people might notice?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[59:24] It's pretty thorny. It's thorny and the canes are long and thin. Most of the roses that like a hybrid tea, it's a vase shape. It's only four to five feet high or three feet wide. Dr. Huey's canes will be six, seven feet long and very thin and whip-like.

Farmer Fred:

[59:43] Okay. So you  can look for that too. I mean, yeah, it's much like citrus when you see these sprouts coming and growing straight up. That's it. That's a red flag. Yes, exactly.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[59:54] You can't really differentiate the leaf form because that would depend on which kind of rose. Some roses, their new growth is red and some new growth is green. So that's not a good indicator. It's where it's coming from. it's from the root it's somewhere below the crown or it's coming from the root that's the best indicator and the best way is to to identify and see it where it's coming off the root and then cut it cut it out and that's the best way. I had one that was coming up. It's off of a tree rose. I had a bush there, so I wasn't really good. Basically, the tree was declining. I was getting like 12 different canes coming off, and so I had to cut the bush way back, a Wheeler's Dwarf Pettosporum, way back just to find it and to dig it out. The best way to do it is when you see it, go after it. Don't wait six months or a year.

Farmer Fred:

[1:00:53] One of the more confusing rose types to prune for a lot of people are climbers.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[1:01:00] Oh, yeah.

Farmer Fred:

[1:01:01] Is that even able to be described on a podcast, or should I just link to a video?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[1:01:06] I link to a video. It's easier there. Yeah, it's much easier because it's a little bit different. Yeah, you can tell I'm going here. It's much better to do that. I can tell you the basics are the same. You've got a dead, diseased, damaged canes, and you get rid of gray canes. And like I mentioned on the Impressionist, I'm going to be taking my reciprocating saw and getting rid of the two-inch cane that's in the center, I've got a bunch of new green canes on the side of it. So it won't reduce the amount of bloom I have, but it's too old. So I'm getting rid of that. But what you do then, depending if you have a long fence, the best thing to do is make your Canes run horizontal, then each of those bud eyes will grow up and form a flower on each end. If you let that one cane just go the top, just go straight up and down, it will only have a flower in the very top. So that's, we try to make all our canes as horizontal as possible for a climber because then we have the most bloom. And that's the only secret. You can take a look at, Google it, just say “climbing rose diagrams”. And you'll see how some people put a little S shape in them. Some people, because they have, depending on the rose, are really lax. Some climbers have such stiff canes. I treat them like a very tall hybrid Tea. So sometimes you need to talk people through that. And maybe, for example, my club, we're going to have a special session for those people that are interested. We have one member who has about almost 30 climbers in a quarter acre lot. Oh, yeah. It's stunning. It's been in Garden Gate magazine, they did a special publication and she was a feature article. It's very French inspired. She does arches. She has 17 arches in a row down her side yard. It's absolutely stunning. Let me tell you, a group of us, I worked on those 17 roses with help. Two of us did 17 roses in one afternoon. It was a way big job because climbers take a little bit more work. You almost have to take a look at and take some of the canes off the structure and then put them back on. So that's where it takes a little bit of work.

Farmer Fred:

[1:03:45] In the newsletter that will accompany this episode, I'm going to have definitions of Floribunda, Grandiflora Hybrid tea, shrub roses Old garden roses And other varieties of roses To help us speed along here And I'll probably find a good link that has some good diagrams For pruning climbing roses as well.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[1:04:07] Yeah.

Farmer Fred:

[1:04:07] I noticed earlier you used the word, “Prunecipals”. I'm going to be using that as the title of this episode.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[1:04:19] Oh, I'm I'm flattered.

Farmer Fred:

[1:04:22] Did you mean to say that?

Charlotte Owendyk:

[1:04:24] Yeah, I sometimes do. OK, it just makes sense.

Farmer Fred:

[1:04:28] Yes, it does. OK, well, I like that. Rose “Prunecipals”. Yes. With Charlotte Owendyk, Sierra Foothills Rose Society, a Master Rosarian. A lot of great information there. Rose pruning time is here for USDA Zone 9. It's coming to your zone in just a few weeks, probably. Charlotte, thanks so much for the great rose pruning information.

Charlotte Owendyk:

[1:04:49] I'm glad you had a good time. I had a great time. Don't forget to check out rose.org and see what you can find there that may familiarize you with all things roses.

Farmer Fred:

[1:05:04] Garden Basics with Farmer Fred comes out every Friday. It's brought to you by SmartPots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics, it's available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, as well as an accurate transcript, visit our website, GardenBasics.net. And thank you so much for listening and your support.