Garden Basics with Farmer Fred
Tips for beginning and experienced gardeners. New episodes arrive every Friday. Fred Hoffman has been a U.C. Certified Master Gardener since 1982 and writes a weekly garden column for the Lodi News-Sentinel in Lodi, CA. A four-decade fixture in Sacramento radio, he hosted three radio shows for Northern California gardeners and farmers: The KFBK Garden Show, Get Growing with Farmer Fred, and the KSTE Farm Hour. Episode Website: https://gardenbasics.net
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred
404 Harvest Day Garden Tips
One of the best places to get your garden questions answered is at the annual gathering of local Master Gardeners, gardening professionals, and horticultural consultants at Harvest Day, held the first Saturday of August each year at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center in Sacramento County, California. And last Saturday was no exception. A question I posed to several dozen of the pros there was this: “What is the one garden tip you would like people to know?” Here’s their answers.
Previous episodes, show notes, links, product information, and transcripts at the home site for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, GardenBasics.net. Transcripts and episode chapters also available at Buzzsprout.
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Pictured: Part of the crowd of gardeners at the vegetable garden information tables, at Harvest Day 2025.
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404 Harvest Day Garden Tips TRANSCRIPT
Farmer Fred:
Every year, the Sacramento County California Master Gardeners put on Harvest Day, an event that attracts thousands of gardeners to their beautiful demonstration garden, the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. The event features garden speakers, garden vendors, informational tables, and over 100 Master Gardeners in attendance to help answer garden questions. And we’ll be talking to all sorts of gardening experts, who will share tips on plant care, including drainage ideas, fertilizer advice, deer protection, native plant care, and effective watering for all gardening levels. Let’s Go!
DRAINAGE, DRAINAGE, DRAINAGE FOR SUCCULENTS
Farmer Fred:
[0:00] Here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, it's Harvest Day. We are at the booth of the Sacramento Cactus and Succulent Society, and we're talking to Dave Roberts, longtime succulent cactus grower and landscaper. And Dave, I imagine you get a lot of questions from people who are new to the world of succulents and cactus, and you get a lot of the same questions over and over again. What is the predominant tip that you like to share?
Dave Roberts:
The first thing we always tell people is drainage, drainage, drainage. Absolutely got to have excellent drainage for cactus and succulents. They thrive on soils that will drain right through, low amounts of organic material. And if you have that formula, you're going to be successful.
Farmer Fred
That's a good point, too, about the low organic materials is that some people think that they're really treating their plants nice, including succulents, by getting some really expensive potting soil in there. When they need something that's a little bit more rocky.
Dave Roberts
We have been telling people, even if they buy a cactus and succulent mix at a nursery, to buy some pumice material and mix them 50-50 to add that extra rocky mix. You can feed them lightly. They're not heavy feeders. I maybe feed my cactus, potted cactus and succulents, two to three times at most during the growing season. Very lightly, not a heavy dose. Those kind of things that we think of normally for vegetables and flowering plants do not apply.
Farmer Fred
So if you have heavy clay soil, you may want to consider growing cactus and succulents in containers.
Dave Roberts
Yeah, that's one of the best things. If you do want to put them in the soil, generally most people do, is we create mounds and heavily amended with larger particles like pumice, lava rock, lava fines. Those things, you know, you can make a good soil, but you've got to keep the drainage.
Farmer Fred
Dave Roberts is with the Sacramento Cactus and Succulent Society. Thanks for the good tip.
Dave Roberts
You bet. Thanks again.
POTTED ROSES? CONSIDER FISH EMULSION FERTILIZER
Farmer Fred
[2:05] We're talking with Master Rosarian Charlotte Owendyk. Charlotte, everybody has a garden tip. I mean, one of mine that I like to talk about is check your drip irrigation system. Turn it on manually, look for breaks, get it fixed. If there's clogs, fix those. That's my one tip that comes to the top of my head. What is the one garden tip that comes to the top of your head?
Charlotte Owendyk
Well, someone came up to me and asked about potted roses or any sort of potted plant. And we're discussing, different issues with it. And one of the things I like to suggest to anyone who has potted plants is use fish emulsion fertilizer periodically, like once a week or so, and give them a nice, good drench with fish emulsion fertilizer. They are so happy at that time. You can fertilize with pelleted fertilizer or any other thing, and water regularly, but fish emulsion really makes your potted roses or any potted plant do well.
Farmer Fred
And what is really nifty about fish emulsion, it is low in macronutrients (5% Nitrogen, 1% Phosphorus, 1% Potassium), and that's a good thing for plants and your soil. Yeah, 5-1-1. And all the neighborhood cats love it, too.
Charlotte Owendyk
[3:10] Not my cat. He's kind of finicky. But it's just a wonderful thing to do. My mother loved tuberous begonias, and she used to dunk them in a little pot (with diluted fish emulsion), and then you see the air bubbles come up. And she had the most beautiful tuberous begonias that I've ever seen.
Farmer Fred
All right, fish emulsion. Charlotte Owendyk, thanks for the tip.
Charlotte Owendyk
You're welcome. Don't forget to water, folks. Everybody needs to water their roses. They're thirsty little plants.
Farmer Fred
She snuck in two tips!
DEER VS. YOUR GARDEN
Farmer Fred
[3:46] Here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on Harvest Day, it's always great running into old friends like Chris Aycock from El Dorado Nurseries and Gardens up in Shingle Springs, a great garden center for foothill dwellers especially. And Chris, whenever I think of gardening in the foothills, I always think you need to protect your plants from deer. So maybe you might want to build a nice tall fence around your garden to protect it. What is one or two garden tips that you're always imparting upon people who live up in the foothills about gardening?
Chris Aycock
Well, if you really want to keep the deer out, it's just like you said, you do need to build a fence. You can spray repellents all you want, and it will deter them. You need to switch off repellents so that they don't get used to one thing. And be diligent about spraying that new growth, because what they really want to eat is that tender new growth, lettuce or whatever. But fencing is your best friend for keeping the deer out. Enjoy the view of those deer (I want to call them something else!) from the other side of the fence.
Farmer Fred
In your work battling deer over the years, have you found any help using trap crops, crops that the deer would find appealing, but those plants are planted on the perimeter of your yard and that might keep the deer from venturing in any further? To me, it seems like a waste of time.
Chris Aycock
Anytime you put a food source out there for them, you're just inviting them in and saying, “Hey, look at this: the dining room's open for grazing!”. I mean, if you're going to put stuff outside of a fence, yes, if you want to help nature and feed the deer, but they can sustain themselves. You don't need to feed them.
Farmer Fred
Exactly. Yeah. Fencing seems to be the surefire answer to controlling deer, especially up in the foothills. Chris Aycock is with Eldorado Nursery and Gardens in Shingle Springs. Chris, thanks for the tip.
Chris Aycock
You got it.
PRUNING PERENNIALS FOR A SECOND BLOOM
Farmer Fred
We're here at Harvest Day, and it's just a wonderful gathering of people and gardeners and vendors. And I'm running into all sorts of old friends and Master Gardeners, and we're collecting garden tips today. And here in the perennial plant section, there's just a wide array of plants of color, of different shapes and sizes, and it's amazing. We were trying to figure out what variety of all the sunflowers are that are coming up, and they're probably volunteers. So there's that. You know, a lot of times we don't know what comes up because, you know, things have seeds. Seeds get planted by animals. And the next thing you know, you got them all over the place. In some societies, that's called a weed, but that's okay. Learn to live with weeds, just remove the most noxious ones. That's my tip of the day. But Anita Clevenger is here, rosarian and master gardener for years and years and years. What is a common mistake or a common tip that you like to give gardeners when it comes to plants that last more than one year?
Anita Clevenger
Well, we've been talking today about cutting plants back. And we have things like the cat mint in here and the Santa Barbara daisy. And they just love a refresh earlier in the season. You cut them back generally in the winter, as you would do with many perennials. You cut back pretty hard in the winter. But for these plants, after they've done their spring bloom, if you cut them back, they get a whole new fresh breath and a fresh flush of flowers and leaves.
Farmer Fred
Exactly. A lot of people forget that in USDA Zone 9, where we are here in California, fall is like the second spring. And so when you cut those plants after they flower once towards the end of spring or early summer, they're going to bloom again.
Anita Clevenger
They will. And they'll look much less shabby. So if you would prefer your garden to look a little neater, don't be afraid to cut them back.
Farmer Fred
That's good news about the Santa Barbara daisy, because yesterday my wife went out and chopped back, easily by half, the Santa Barbara daisies we have lining the walkway. And what a wonderful, long-lasting, colorful perennial that is. It doesn't get that tall, maybe a foot tall or so, but it's in bloom for much of the year and attracts all sorts of beneficial insects.
Anita Clevenger
And something I've been telling people, we have labels on all of the plants here, so you don't have to come here on Harvest Day to see the water-efficient landscape. It's open every day of the year. The labels have on them the icons that say what benefits they are to insects and birds, an easy guide to what really are good pollinator plants. They also might have a little star in the corner of the label, and that will say that they're a UC Davis Arboretum All-Star. And the Santa Barbara Daisy is one of them.
Farmer Fred
Anita Clevenger, thank you.
Anita Clevenger
You're welcome.
LET SOME AGING HERBS AND VEGETABLES GO TO FLOWER
Farmer Fred
Also here in the perennial plant section is Kathy Hellensen, Master Gardener. She's usually over in the herb section doing things or she’s up in the vegetable section. But all of a sudden she's over here in the perennial plant section. And, you know, Kathy, one gardening tip I like to tell people if you live in the Sacramento area, you ought to subscribe to Sacramento Digs Gardening, which just happens to be one of the publications that Kathy is responsible for. Excellent publication that comes out every day, about local garden events and local garden tips and a recipe every week, too, using what's fresh in your garden. Kathy, how about a quick garden tip?
Kathy Hellensen
Quick garden tip. In herbs, we do a lot of tip pruning of the flowers. But if you want to attract beneficial insects, let one of your plants go to seed or go to flower and then go to seed. They adore that. If your cilantro busted out because it's summertime, just don't yank it out. Just let the beneficial insects have it. The little tiny bees especially really love the flowers. Let one of your basils go to flower, and you'll have beneficial insects from now until it gets frozen, I guess.
Farmer Fred
A lot of people don't realize parsley lasts for two years. It's a biennial, and it really puts on a nice show in its second year.
Kathy Hellensen
Yes, it does. The one we have here in the herb garden right now, it has flowers on it. It's not a very big plant because for a while our irrigation was not doing well. But you can see we have a first-year plant and a second-year plant planted right next to each other. So you can see what it does. But after two years, you're going to have to replace it. All right. But that's OK.
Farmer Fred
That's fine. You know, you get a nice fresh one, another one. So Kathy Hellenson, Master Gardener, thanks for the tips.
Kathy Hellensen
You're quite welcome, Fred.
JOIN A ROSE SOCIETY
Farmer Fred
[10:13] We're gathering garden tips here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on Harvest Day. We're talking with, from the Sierra Foothill Rose Society, Garry Chin is here. And one garden tip I like to tell people is: if you're looking for good gardening information on the Internet, always end whatever you're searching for with the letters dot edu (.edu). And that will put the search into the educational realm where there's a better chance it's going to return accurate information. So whatever you're searching for on the Internet, try adding dot edu. Garry, what about for people who like roses? What's a good garden tip for them?
Garry Chin
What I would suggest is find out what your local rose society is. Join the local rose society. They'll teach you how to take care and prune your roses year-round. The other thing, too, is once you belong to a local rose society, join the American Rose Society. That's the national organization. I handle the webinars for them, and I am one of the organizers. And we have guest speakers coming on that'll talk to you about how to take care of roses in all the different parts of the country. So if you leave this area and go to the East Coast or the South, you will learn how to take care of your roses. When you're back in those areas because different parts of the countries have different climates and things. So you have to learn how to take care of the roses in the new area that you're in. So that's one of my recommendations is join a local road society wherever you're at and then join the national organizations because you'll find out about the latest things that are going on with roses at the national level. And this last month, we had a guest speaker who talked about what they're doing to take care of black spot disease. Now, we don't have that issue here in California, but other parts of the country, they do. So, like I said, you'll learn different things of how roses are handled in different parts of the country.
Farmer Fred
Here in Sacramento, we're fortunate to have two Rose Societies. We have the Sacramento Rose Society and the Sierra Foothill Rose Society. And one thing I've noticed about them over the years, they are a fun bunch. What a bunch of party animals. I mean, to me, they're the happiest group. They may bicker, but they just love each other, and they always have a good time whenever they get together.
Garry Chin
That's the thing. Wherever you belong, you have to have a good time. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, life's too short not to enjoy what you're doing. So go find something else to do with the two local rose societies. We're always having a good time.
Farmer Fred
Garry Chin, thank you.
Garry Chin
You're welcome. Have a nice day.
WATERING NATIVE PLANTS
Here at Harvest Day, there's a lot of great vendors here, including the Miridae Mobile Nursery. And Grace Amico is with us from Miridae Mobile Nursery. There's all sorts of wonderful drought-tolerant perennials here and lot’s of blooming plants. And it looks great. And when it comes to quick garden tips, one of my favorite ones is when you get a plant home in a container, if you think you're not going to be planting it right away, move it up. Move it up into a larger container to allow those roots to not suffer being cramped in the same old container. And Grace, what is one garden tip that comes to your brain?
Grace Amico
With native plants, I was definitely being careful about watering, but that the first couple of years, they actually will need a lot more water than you'll think. And then after that few years, you can kind of taper off and let them be drought tolerant.
Farmer Fred
And one of the things, too, with California native plants, is you have to be patient with them. It could take three years before you see a spurt of growth. The old saying is: “Sleep, creep and leap”. Grace, thanks for the tip.
Grace Amico
Thank you. Have a good one.
MULCH, MULCH, MULCH!
Farmer Fred
We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on Harvest Day. We're collecting quick garden tips from the experts that are assembled here offering up information. Lily is with us from the Sacramento Perennial Plant Club. And Lily, one of my favorite tips for new gardeners especially is to know your soil. Know your soil because you can really get a successful garden if you plant correctly, and part of that is if you know the pH of your soil and what nutrients it has or needs. Do you have a quick garden tip?
Lily, Sacramento Perennial Plant Club
I say mulch, mulch, mulch, and gardeners know all the best dirt.
Farmer Fred
Mulch is great, and there's all sorts of sources of mulch. We're standing on some of the best mulch around here. It's chipped tree parts, basically, from local arborists, and it's probably six to eight inches thick here. And it's throughout the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. And the great stuff about mulch like this is as it breaks down, it feeds the soil, it suppresses weeds, and it preserves soil moisture as well. Mulch, it does a whole heck of a lot of good.
Lily
Thank you so much for sharing our information with your listeners.
Farmer Fred
Thank you, Lily.
UNDERSTANDING DRIP IRRIGATION
Farmer Fred
We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. It's Harvest Day, where I get to see people I haven't seen in years. It's always wonderful. Juliet Voightlander is here from Eldorado Nursery and Gardens. And when it comes to garden quick tips, you must have a gazillion of them that you share with your customers. I know one big problem that a lot of people have is with drip irrigation. Some people call it drip irritation. I mentioned earlier about walk the system, turn it on manually, make sure there's nothing broken, nothing jammed. What are some of the problems you see with people using drip irrigation?
Juliet Voightlander
Most people don't understand how drip works. So if you have a one-gallon emitter and you run it for 15 minutes, you basically got a quarter of a gallon of water, which is just a pee-pee on your plant. It's meant to be run long amounts of time, infrequently. And it also is work. As a plant gets bigger, you move the emitter out. Most people don't do that. It's really helpful to do it. It's a very effective way to water when you understand how it works.
Farmer Fred
Keep adding emitters or put in bigger emitters, things like that.
Juliet Voightlander
The other issue that we have with most of our customers is they plant it and they never feed it. And I use the analogy, well, did you feed your children? Yes, of course I did. Did they grow? Yes, of course they did. The plant is loved every day at the grower. They feed it. They fertilize it. They take care of it. We turn it over to you and you throw it in the dirt and you never feed it again. A little food is a good thing to help plants get through stressful times.
Farmer Fred
See, this is why I could never be a nursery person, because I get mad at my neighbors if I give them a plant and they just let it die, and I hold a grudge against them forever. And you can't do that if you own a nursery.
Juliet Voightlander
No, you cannot do that if you own a nursery. And you also have to be sure you phrase it with, you don't want to say, “what, are you stupid?” Instead, say, “But let me help you”. This is what I do all day.
Farmer Fred
Very good. Juliet Voigtlander, thanks for the quick tip.
Juliet Voightlander
You're welcome. It was good to see you again, Fred.
KNOW YOUR SOIL MOISTURE
Farmer Fred
It's Harvest Day here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. We're running into old friends and great garden people all over, getting quick garden tips. There was an old saying in radio gardening circles that if you answered any question that had to do with plants and just said, “well, it's a watering problem,” 95% of the time you'd be right. And that sure is true. It's all about watering, really. Steve Zien is here. You know him as a soil pedologist, he’s been on the show many times. Steve, do you have any quick garden tips about watering?
Steve Zien
Deep and infrequent. And the only way you're going to know how often and how long to water is to get yourself a soil probe, or there's also a smaller version called the Soil Sleuth. You can look it up on that interweb thing that the kids are familiar with. And dig in your own soil and find out, is your soil moist? And you wait for most plants until the soil is somewhat dry before you irrigate. Then I tell people, irrigate half as long as they normally do. Wait an hour. Give the water a chance to move as far down as it's going to go. And then take that soil probe or Soil Sleuth and push it in the ground. And you'll be able to see how far down that water's gone. And if the water's gone down six inches and your root system you think is going down 18 inches, you need to water three times longer.
Farmer Fred
That Soil Sleuth is an amazing little device. It looks like a plastic candy cane with notches on it. It's a very simple device. It's ingenious because you plunge it into the soil, give it a quarter turn, bring it back up, and the soil will be embedded on the little ridges along the arm, and that way you can tell what the moisture is.
Steve Zien
Right, and it'll go down. You push it in six, eight inches, and the depth, it has those different notches at different depths, and you'll be able to see how far down that moisture is. Don't be deceived when you come home on a sunny day and you don't have mulch and that surface soil is bone dry. You can go down a quarter of an inch and it could be wet.
Farmer Fred
Just because you're hot and sweaty doesn't mean your plants are hot and sweaty.
Steve Zien
Right. And just because your neighbor waters at a certain frequency or a certain amount doesn't mean your soil needs the same irrigation. Everybody's soil is unique and everybody's soil needs to be watered differently. That's why it's so important to use a soil probe, a Soil Sleuth, never ask and never answer how much and how often should I water.
Farmer Fred
I asked for one tip. We got the lecture.
Steve Zien
Yes, you do. That's the way it works.
Farmer Fred
Steve Zien, good to see you.
Steve Zien:
Happy to be here.
PLANT A NEW TOMATO EVERY YEAR
Farmer Fred
We're at the Sacramento Community Gardens table where Master Gardener Bill Maynard, who has been very important in the development of community gardens throughout the Sacramento area, is here staffing the table. And I bet he has a good quick garden tip. My own tip for gardeners is walk your garden every day. Get out there. Take your coffee out there in the morning and walk the garden. Look carefully, look for pests, look for new fruit that may need harvesting, but check your garden every day. Bill, you have any tips like that?
Bill Maynard
You covered it quite a bit. I would say plant a new tomato every year. Try a different one. Of course, plant the ones you like, but always try a new one. There's so many delicious tomatoes. It's a shame not to try them all.
Farmer Fred
Sometimes it's a surprise. Sometimes it's a bust. But that's the fun of gardening. For instance, this year, a new one I tried is called Saucy Lady, and I'm very pleased with the output this year of Saucy Lady. What have you tried lately?
Bill Maynard
My favorite is a small tomato, it's called Jelly Bean. And there are not too many out there. When you find them, they're great because they're nice and small and they're very sweet. Kids love them.
Farmer Fred
There you go. Bill Maynard, Master Gardener. Thanks for the tip.
Bill Maynard
Okay. You're welcome, Fred.
INTERSPERSE YOUR VEGETABLE GARDEN WITH FLOWERS
Farmer Fred
[21:08] We're at Harvest Day at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. We're picking up quick garden tips from all the experts I'm coming across here. And I'm with, from Sacramento Digs Gardening, Debbie Arrington, longtime garden writer and photographer and cook and things like that there, and Master Rosarian as well. And, you know, when it comes to summertime problems, especially with the weather, it's not always the gardener's fault. And one tip I like to give gardeners is, don't be too quick to blame yourself. There could have been a weird weather pattern that caused whatever problem you might be having.
Debbie Arrington
Right now, I'm thinking about pollination and trying to get as much production out of my garden as possible. And for pollination, for most crops, you need bees. But how do you get more bees into your garden? Well, one of the sure ways to get more bees into your garden is to plant flowers along with your vegetables. Flowers are like signposts to the bees that come over here, there's something good to eat, and they'll come over and after they finish gorging themselves on the pollen and nectar from your pretty herbal flowers or nasturtiums or calendulas or marigolds or poppies or whatever other flowers you have, then they'll say, oh, and there's some squash right over there. I should go over and visit the squash and they'll go and pollinate your squash. And that will be their dessert, but it will be your veggies.
Farmer Fred
One of my favorite California native plants for a long flowering season, and this plant stays in flower from May through November, is California buckwheat. And it attracts all sorts of beneficial insects and many, many different types of bees, native bees, bumblebees, hoverflies. It's a whole army of good guys that like the California buckwheat. So there's a lot of good plants out there that should be, and you would probably intersperse them throughout your garden.
Debbie Arrington
Yes. And I tend to put a border of flowers around my community garden plot. It not only looks good, but it also signals the bees to come on in that they should visit this plot, that there's something there for them. And having California natives is great because it helps attract native bees. As well as the honeybees.
Farmer Fred
California farmers are getting the groove, too, in that regard. In many vineyards now in California, there will be edging of alyssum throughout a vineyard. And the alyssum attracts all sorts of beneficial insects that can stop a lot of grape pests as well. So, yeah, incorporate flowers among your edibles.
Debbie Arrington
Yes, and it really is how nature was meant to work. When you look at a forest glen or something like that, you'll see this flower is along the edges of the glen. Well, yes, it's doing the same thing that you're trying to do. And the idea of a hedgerow along the edge of a pasture or farm space, well, that hedgerow is filled with beneficial insects that are both helping the garden and helping the farm as well as helping themselves.
Farmer Fred
Now we're going down a real nifty rabbit hole. I like the idea of hedgerows because it also attracts, especially in the evergreen shrubs, you attract small birds. And small birds are great for controlling pests too.
Debbie Arrington
Oh, yes. Yes. And there's this whole symbiotic relationship. You know, the birds are looking for caterpillars, for example, that, you know, the same caterpillars that are eating your cabbage. That's what they're looking for. By helping the birds and the bees, you're also helping yourself.
Farmer Fred
That wasn't so quick of a tip, but it was a good tip. Debbie Arrington, thank you.
Debbie Arrington
You're most welcome.
CONTROLLING MOSQUITOES, NATURALLY
Farmer Fred
We're collecting garden tips here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on Harvest Day. We are at the Sacramento Yolo Mosquito and Vector Control District table here, where they're answering questions about pests. And they control a lot of nasty things in our area, like yellow jackets and mosquitoes. We are talking with Christina Stokes. And when it comes to mosquitoes, one of the tips I always tell people is, You know what's great? If you have a pond or something like that, put in the dunks, the BT dunks, the Bacillus thuringiensis dunks. Those work great. Do you have any tips like that?
Christina Stokes
Definitely. Dump standing water underneath your plants if you have saucers. Dump standing water and also if you have ponds, ask us for mosquito fish. We always have them available.
Farmer Fred
And you have some samples of the mosquito fish here.
Christina Stokes
Yes, we do. And we have larvae that we feed them if you would like to watch them eat. All right. Yes, you can control mosquitoes naturally.
Farmer Fred
Thanks so much, Christina.
Christina Stokes
Of course. Have a wonderful day.
CAN YOU GROW AN APPLE TREE FROM AN APPLE SEED?
Farmer Fred:
We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. It's Harvest Day. I'm over in the orchard section. Who should be here but fruit tree expert Ed Laivo, who has a wonderful website about fruit trees. It's on YouTube. It's called Edable Solutions.
Ed Laivo:
Farmer Fred:
And so this question is right up your alley. It's from Lisa, who lives in Roseville. And she said, “Earlier this year, I started three apple trees from seed, a Honeycrisp, a Gala, and a Pink Lady, knowing they won't be true to the parent, but wanting to see what I would get in the years to come. I love a good gardening surprise. The seedlings are each eight inches in height with approximately 17 nice leaves and planted separately in 10-inch pots. Currently, they get morning sun for seven hours and are shaded for the hottest part of the day. What's the best way for me to overwinter them? I live in Roseville, Zone 9, have a yard with several microclimates. Do I bring them inside in winter. Protect them from frost, wind, or rain until they reach a certain stage. Any recommendations you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Love the podcast and the newsletter.”
Farmer Fred:
Well, thank you for that, Lisa. I like to quote Henry David Thoreau at this point, who wrote an essay about wild apples. Henry David Thoreau, of course, a naturalist and writer. He said, “an apple grown from seed tastes sour enough to set a squirrel's teeth on edge and make a jay scream”. And that's very true.
Ed Laivo:
Well, I'll tell you what. I know why. Because during Thoreau's time... Crabapples were a very big part of the pollinators used in popular conventional apple orchards. So the idea that you would end up with a seedling that had crab apple in it was pretty dang good.
Farmer Fred:
Yeah, this sent me down this real deep rabbit hole. And I started researching Johnny Appleseed, who was a real person by the name of John Chapman. And he wasn't this old hermit who went around scattering apple seeds hither. He was an entrepreneur. He was a nurseryman and he was starting orchards all over the place, setting them up as businesses. But he knew that the apples that would produce from seed wouldn't be very tasty. He was in the alcohol business because the whole point of wild apples back then in the 1800s was making hard cider.
Ed Laivo:
Yeah, they were water because water wasn't always great to drink. And so, you know, hard cider was very, very, it was, let's just put it this way. It was part of the sustenance of that time.
Farmer Fred:
So anyway, let's get back to Lisa's question here. So she's got these seedlings growing in pots. The first piece of advice I would have for her was get them out of pots and get them in the ground.
Ed Laivo:
I would agree with that totally. To be exact, that was the first notion I had is that one of the big challenges is this. We don't know how long it's going to take to them, for them to reach physiological maturity when they're going to actually start to produce apples. And so, for instance, you know, you can get something like an empire apple, which may produce in the second or third season, but you can take an apple like maybe a Spitzenberg that may not even produce fruit in the seventh or eighth season. So they're both widely different in terms of the expectations you can put on fruit you know, what their probability is going to be in terms of production. Just production, not even having to do with flavor.
Farmer Fred:
But the apple that's going to come up isn't going to be a Honeycrisp or a Pink Lady or a Gala.
Ed Laivo:
Yeah. Honeycrisp, Pink Lady and Gala. For instance, the one apple that probably comes true from seed more than any other would be Golden Delicious. That one really, and it's used as a rootstock because it is so, you know, so frequently it's used as a standard rootstock because it does come up pretty, pretty consistently the same. You know, there's not a lot of varieties that do that, that have that quality. But I would say that something like, let's say, a Honeycrisp. Honeycrisp are grown in solid orchards of sweet apples, okay? The likelihood that it's going to come up with a tolerable apple, are pretty good. Yeah, because you don't have a lot of these crab apples and other varieties that are coming in and mixing, you know, pollen into those apples. So I would say, you know, it's fun. Come on. That's what it's all about.
Farmer Fred:
Right. But like you say, it's going to take years for you to discover whether it's an edible apple or not. And according to the research I was doing, it could be like a one in 100 chance that the apple you grew from seed would be edible. I've seen other figures that talk about a one in 8,000 chance of it being a great, edible apple.
Ed Laivo:
Okay. So I would have to say after a week of spending at the Zaigers in their apple research section and going through nothing but their seedling selections, you know, I would say you're probably right in terms of it being a, there's a high probability that it's not going to be a desirable apple. A tolerable apple? I think in today's, with today's, let's say DNA, we're probably talking about more likely than not, it'll be tolerable. Will it be something that's grand? I can tell you, Lacey and I went through probably, I don't know, what, 50, 60, 70 varieties of seedlings eating them. We picked out one that was okay, another one that had genetic characteristics that she Liked a lot that she wanted to use in another cross. Out of that, they do 250,000 crosses a year. Well, they're busy there. Yeah, but not just apples. But just imagine that the percentage of tolerable is probably high. The percentage of really great varieties is very low.
Farmer Fred:
The chance of that tree, too, when it finally gets to a bearing age, which, like you say, might be seven years or more, that's going to be a tall tree.
Ed Laivo:
Well, you know, I mean, you know me, I'm going to tell you, prune the daylights out of it and keep it low. And that's exactly what the Zaigers, they have to keep it low because they're actually sampling fruit. They're only trying to keep, and they have to keep it reasonable. They're not out there trying to produce, I'll give you an example. They have seedlings and they'll go in and they'll take those seedlings and they'll bud them onto a rootstock and they'll put, of the same parentage, they'll put four different selections of the same cross and get four different varieties out of that same cross on one tree. And they have to manage that by pruning. Labeling. And how about this? They won't even accept it if it doesn't set fruit in the first two years because for today's market, they have to be precocious. They have to set fruit early and they have to set fruit young.
Farmer Fred:
It's not a total waste, Lisa. You're having fun, for one thing. That's the thing. But yeah, I think both Ed and I agree that the first thing you want to do is don't restrict that root system as quickly as possible.
Ed Laivo:
Get them into the ground. Correct. Yeah, yeah, that's a big deal right there. And I think Gala's been used in a lot of crosses. It's in a lot of crosses now. And I think it's used primarily because it's an earlier variety. And so I don't know. I just seem to think that the Gala seed is probably going to be the one that produces the most desirable of the three. That would be my prediction.
Farmer Fred:
Yes, that's a guess. But like you said, if she wanted to really try and increase the odds of success, maybe take the seeds from a Golden Delicious and try that.
Ed Laivo:
Well, Golden Delicious actually is used in commercial agriculture as a rootstock for standard trees because it is consistent. You know, and when you say consistent, you've got to be careful there, too, because there's variances. You know, even, you know, when you look at two commercially grown trees on Red Delicious, or pardon me, on Yellow Delicious apple, you know, you're going to see that if you let them go, one's going to be different than the other. I mean, you know, but the consistencies are very, very close.
Farmer Fred:
And do you have insects flying around and moving pollen around?
Ed Laivo:
Oh, correct. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. There's two different great growers up in the Boonville area. They have apples that go back 150 years and one of them is a famous the Gowans. I believe it's a Gowans and they have Yellow Delicious apples that go back to the original Yellow delicious that was introduced by the Stark brothers which wouldn't be 150 about 125 years ago because i think Stark came out in about 1920-25 i think with the Yellow Delicious.
Farmer Fred:
Lisa, have fun.
Ed Laivo:
Yeah yeah yeah i mean come on. That's what it's all about. It's all about fun, you know, and you didn't plant the seed to just become rich and famous.
Farmer Fred:
You want to see how it grows. Correct.
Ed Laivo:
Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's the big deal.
Farmer Fred:
Ed Laivo, fruit expert. Thank you.
Ed Laivo:
Oh, hey, it's always my pleasure, Fred.
SUMMER CARE OF HOUSEPLANTS
Farmer Fred
We're here at Harvest Day at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, coming across old friends, Master Gardeners, and look who's here! It's Lori Anne Asmus of Emerald City Interior Landscape Services, Houseplant Pro. And as you know, my one garden tip for indoor houseplants would be, water that houseplant once a month, whether if it needs it or not.
LoriAnne Asmus
Yeah, and you know, Fred has at least one houseplant left. Maybe two, I'm not sure.
Farmer Fred
Three.
LoriAnne Asmus
Really? Three? Is that ficus tree still alive?
Farmer Fred
No, no, the ficus is gone. A palm has taken its place.
LoriAnne Asmus
Okay, well, that's good. I'm really proud of you for having something cleaning your air. Uh-huh. So, you know, if it's too hot to go outside, you can stay inside and take care of your houseplants. My tip for the day, though, is do not take your houseplants out for a day in the sun. People tell me this all the time. They're like, oh, I just thought I got up in the morning and I'll take my little plant out and give it some sun. And then it looks like this. It's all burnt and collapsed. And like, what happened? It's like, oh, well, it's like taking your redhead out in the sun without sunscreen, folks. Don't do it.
Farmer Fred
Can you do it at a certain time of day? Like if you want to wash off the plant, you want to take it outside. Can you do it early in the morning?
LoriAnne Asmus
Well, you know, my recommendation, honestly, just because people do tend to forget and they think a little bit of sun is okay, and it's not, is to just, if you want to wash it off, take it to the shower. Wash it off inside. Because even the heat can cause problems for some of your plants. Like orchids, for example. If you're buying an orchid at the grocery store and you take it outside and you're going to take it right home, if it's 3 o'clock in the afternoon and you just bring it out of the grocery store into your car, just that blast of heat is going to cause those buds to blast, the flowers to drop.
Farmer Fred
So maybe buy orchids at the grocery store early in the day?
LoriAnne Asmus
Yes, early in the day and or late in the evening after the sun has set.
Farmer Fred
See, there's several tips right there. Good tips.
LoriAnne Asmus
Right, exactly. So, you know, you're going to increase your water, of course, your water frequency. And whenever we talk about the increase in water, we're talking about watering thoroughly, and less frequent in the winter and more frequent in the summer.
Farmer Fred
I would think, too, in the summertime, what sort of window do you have your plants in, and maybe you need to provide them some protection from light through a window?
LoriAnne Asmus
Well, it would depend on the plant. Some of your plants can tolerate a west window, like your succulents, a ficus tree properly watered, asparagus fern, lipstick plants, They can all tolerate a west window, maybe three or four feet away from the window, not right up pressed against the window. If you see the leaves starting to burn a little bit, getting spots, that's going to be too much sun.
Farmer Fred
All right. What about a sheer curtain?
LoriAnne Asmus
Sheer curtain's good. Yeah, that would be good. It really does cut down on the available light quite a bit. So be aware of that. You can get much closer that way. And if it's something that requires, like once again, your cactus or your succulents, you don't want to do that. So it kind of depends on the light need of the plant. Your east window and your south window, but mostly your east, is going to be your best bet always.
Farmer Fred
Good tip. And of course, the answer, as always, is, “it depends”.
LoriAnne Asmus
Yes, I love that. It depends on the plant. And if one more person says, oh, it's a green plant. It's three feet tall. I'm going to scream. Of course, you can't count on the names in the pot, right? Because what does it say? “Tropical foliage plant”. What's that? Right?
Farmer Fred
That’s why God invented Valium for gardeners.
LoriAnne Asmus
Oh, did He? Right. Well, you know all gardeners know better than other gardeners, right? Oh, yes. Yeah.
Farmer Fred
Lori Ann Asmus, thank you for your quick tips. Sure.
LoriAnne Asmus
My pleasure.
BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS NEWSLETTER
Farmer Fred
Gardeners are saying very nice things about the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. Tessie writes in to say, “I’m going to try your coffee filter germination trick to get the pepper seeds to sprout sooner. Thank you for this very helpful information in your newsletter.” Laura writes in and says, “you and America's favorite retired college horticultural professor, Debbie Flower, have made me a better and happier gardener with the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter”. Tanya says, “I subscribed immediately when I read your newsletter about the benefits of not pruning tomatoes. I don't do it, nor do two of my favorite French market gardeners, one of whom is a sixth-generation gardener in a long line of successful market farmers. Thank you.” And Robin says, “I work the help desk for my County Master Gardener program, and I find I'm sometimes overwhelmed by garden problems, disease, confusion, too much or not enough water, gophers. And I love the idea in one of your recent newsletters of keeping a gratitude journal based on daily walks in the garden. Thank you.” The Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter comes out twice a week. The Friday edition is free for all subscribers. The Monday edition is available for paid subscribers. And by the way, your paid subscription to the newsletter supports not only the ongoing efforts to produce the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. It also helps to keep this podcast freely available each week. Find a link to more information about the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter in today's show notes or at our homepage, GardenBasics.net. Or you could just do an Internet search for the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. And thank you for your support and encouragement to keep the good gardening conversation going.
Farmer Fred
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred comes out every Friday. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast as well as an accurate transcript of the podcast visit our website, gardenbasics.net. And thank you so much for listening and your support.