096 O'Henry Peach. Downsizing Fruit Trees. Why Thin Fruit.

The O’Henry Peach has been popular since its introduction in 1968. It’s a sweet, juicy, long lasting, easy peach tree to grow. A perfect candidate for today’s Fabulous Fruit Friday. Fruit tree expert Ed Laivo of Tomorrow's Harvest tells us all about it. Plus, Ed has step by step instructions for reducing the height of an overgrown fruit tree, taking it down to a more manageable six or seven feet tall.

A frequent question new gardeners have: which way should I position my fruit trees or raised beds? North to South or East to West? Good question. Our favorite retired college horticulture professor, Debbie Flower, has some ideas on that.

Plus, this is the time to be thinning the fruit from your deciduous fruit trees, while the fruit is still small. The advantages of removing fruit so that there’s six inches of space between the remaining pieces of fruit? Bigger, healthier fruit. And fewer broken branches this summer.

It’s all on episode 96 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Tomorrow's Harvest. 

And we will do it all in under 30 minutes. Let’s go!

Pictured:
O’Henry Peach

Links:
O’Henry Peach at Tomorrows Harvest
Pruning Overgrown Deciduous Fruit Trees (pdf from UCANR)
Smart Pots

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Chapters

• 1:45 Fabulous Fruit Friday: The O'Henry Peach. Reducing the Height of Fruit Trees. Fruit Thinning.
• 15:26 Smart Pots!
• 16:29 Fruit Tree Orientation: N-S or E-W?
• 24:30 Tomorrow's Harvest
• 25:51 Importance of Fruit & Veg Thinning

Transcript

GB 096 FFF O'Henry Peach. Reducing Fruit Tree Size. Thinning Fruit.

29:54

SPEAKERS

Debbie Flower, Ed Laivo, Farmer Fred

Farmer Fred  00:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Farmer Fred  00:20

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot. 

Farmer Fred  00:33

The O'Henry peach, it's been popular since its introduction back in 1968. It's a sweet, juicy, long-lasting, easy peach tree to grow. It's a perfect candidate for today's Fabulous Fruit Friday. Fruit tree expert Ed Laivo of TomorrowsHarvest.com tells us all about it. Plus, Ed has step-by-step instructions for reducing the height of an overgrown fruit tree, taking it down to a more manageable six or seven feet tall. A frequent question new gardeners have: "Which way should I position my fruit trees or my raised beds: north to south or east or west?" That's a good question. Our favorite retired college horticultural Professor, Debbie Flower, has some ideas on that. Plus, this is the time to be thinning the fruit from your deciduous fruit trees. While that fruit is still really small, the advantages of removing fruits so that there are six inches of space between the remaining pieces of fruit include bigger, healthier fruit, and fewer broken branches this summer. It's all on Episode 96 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you by Smart Pots and Tomorrow's Harvest.com. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go. 

Farmer Fred  01:50

It's Fabulous Fruit Friday, which means we get to talk with Ed Laivo of Tomorrow's Harvest, a division of Burchell nursery. My wife and I were talking about the peach that you're bringing up for today's edition of Fabulous Fruit Friday, and we both thought, "Oh, yeah, that's an old time peach." Turns out, it's not that old. I'm surprised, it sure sounds like it has an old name. It's the O'Henry peach.

Ed Laivo  02:15

Well, you know, Fred, the O'Henry peach has been around for a long time. And because it became so popular so quickly, after its introduction in 1968. It really seems like it's been around for a long, long time. And maybe you both have this taste for old fashioned peaches, because if I were to tell you anything about the flavor of an O'Henry peach, I would tell you that it has all the attributes of what we would consider a classic peach, definitely just rich, wonderful, smooth texture, very sweet with just the slightest hint of acidity.

Farmer Fred  02:57

And it is a freestone peach. Correct?

Ed Laivo  02:59

Yes. Yeah, it's a freestone. It has an interesting lineage. There was a very prolific breeder that was up in the Red Bluff area in California, probably through the early 1900s into the mid 1900s. And that was Grant Merrill, and he introduced many, many varieties of peaches and nectarines. This particular one came to Burchell Nursery through Grant Merrill, then was introduced to the market through Burchell Nursery. It became a commercial success overnight, it was probably almost every grocery store for a while. It was in every farmers market that existed at the time, probably more auctions at the time than farmers markets. But you found it everywhere. Just because it had so many of the qualities that a really wonderful peach should have and all the attributes that the commercial growers were looking for: firmness, could be transported, a good long shelf life, and plus could be picked firm with great flavor. So it just really caught on with the commercial growers and the farmers market growers very quickly.

Farmer Fred  04:12

Yeah, you mentioned this Grant Merrill guy. And man oh man, is he responsible for a lot of peaches? I counted something like 25 varieties of peaches that have his name on it, like Merrill Bonanza, and I think isn't the Merrill Bonanza part of the lineage of the O'Henry?

Ed Laivo  04:27

Correct. It is it's one of the parents, actually the Merrill Bonanza and a nectarine. 

Farmer Fred  04:34

Hmm.

Ed Laivo  04:35

And the O'Henry peach, as you mentioned, was introduced  just a little over 50 years ago, and it took off. It was popular and it's very popular in grilling as well. 

Farmer Fred  04:49

I think that's something that I wish more people took advantage of is grilling fresh fruit.

Ed Laivo  04:54

Yeah, and the O'Henry definitely falls into that classification simply because when it's nice and firm and you slice it and put it on the grill, the grill kind of takes all the moisture out of it and concentrates the sugar in the flavor. And I'm sure you've grilled peaches, right?

Farmer Fred  05:10

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's easy. It's on medium heat, three minutes a side, and you take it off. And it's like eating a peach pie.

Ed Laivo  05:18

It is, it's tremendous. I think the O'Henry is probably one of the best for doing that with, as well. O'Henry is good for everything. And it has a long, long hang time. And so you know, this is a peach that will hang on the tree  and be able to be picked from firm and ripe,  where it's nice and sweet kind of has that little bit of a snap crunch to the fruit to the skin. And at the same time, a nice smooth texture with a great, wonderful sweetness. And that little bit of acidity that comes through. And that's probably a hint of that nectarine coming through. And then it just keeps getting, smoother and smoother around the tree until it's just syrupy sweet, and juice running down your arms. And it's that kind of classic peach experience that everybody just loves to have. And then regrets after they're done and have to clean up, do again and repeat.

Farmer Fred  06:16

It's also good for canning, baking and making preserves as well.

Ed Laivo  06:20

Yes. Oh, yeah. It's good for everything that you would do with a classic peach. Even a cling peach for that matter.

Farmer Fred  06:27

The O'Henry Peach, check it out, go to tomorrowsharvest.com. And check out the details about the O'Henry peach, today's delicious piece of fruit on Fabulous Fruit Friday.

Farmer Fred  06:39

Well, we've gotten to that segment of the program where people are asking Ed questions, we call it "Ask Ed" because, why not. And several people have written in with basically the same question. They love the idea of keeping their fruit trees small, but unfortunately, they're deciduous fruit trees have been around a while. So they're 12 feet, 15 feet, 20 feet tall. And they're wondering how they can take those trees back to a more workable six or seven feet tall.

Ed Laivo  07:08

It's a combination of both winter and summer pruning. And I've done this many, many, many times. First off in the spring, you can do this and actually keep the fruit tree producing as well, the first year that you go in and prune is going to be the biggest cut. Take back about a third of the total canopy the first spring, bring it down, then you let it flush. And then about mid-summer, you come back to where you made that cut. And you cut it off (the new flush of growth) completely. Just top it, it's just gonna make a big mess at the top of your tree. But don't worry about that. Okay, because it's also pushing buds lower and it's also stimulating buds down below those cuts. Then the next fall or winter, you'll come in and you'll cut it down another third. Again, in the spring, you'll get this flush. Okay, then you'll come back in by the late spring, and you'll cut that new flush back all the way to where you cut it that winter. Okay. Now your next year, you have to determine how tall you want it because if you cut it back a third next year, of course, you end up with a pretty dang short tree. So you know by that time, if you're bringing it down roughly about a third, you're probably down right around six, seven feet on the third season.

Farmer Fred  08:29

And I guess for most fruit trees being maybe 15-20-25 feet tall. If you have a pole pruner, this might be doable while you're standing on the ground.

Ed Laivo  08:39

Sure. Oh, yeah. Because you're really not trying to do this in any kind of real, artistic fashion. This is actually just butcher pruning, you're cutting this things, you're cutting this thing down,  trying to get it down to a size without losing the ability of the tree to push new growth. So every time you prune it in the summertime, and you whack back that spring flush, you're actually stimulating buds down below that cut that you made in the wintertime. So that they'll be there, and they'll be the place you're cutting down to next and they'll stimulate, you know, and push the next spring. So that's really what you're doing. And that's why you're graduating it down like that.

Farmer Fred  09:19

And then it just comes to the point where Okay, how much do you want to leave? And as you like to say, and just keep it as tall as you can reach?

Ed Laivo  09:30

Yeah, yes, totally. I tend to have my trees, all my trees are as tall as I stand with my hands extended above my head.

Farmer Fred  09:40

Yep. Because anything above that if you can't stand on the ground and pick the fruit, everything else is for the birds.

Ed Laivo  09:46

Right. And I think that, you know, there'll be a group, you know, there'll be a whole bunch of people that'll say, but wait a minute, I have deer problems. Well, you know, I've actually looked at caging fruit trees years ago. We did a lot of experiments with actually just caging fruit trees, keeping them nice and low, and then you know, say to six foot, then creating a circular cage around your fruit tree. And then just allowing the deer to come up and eat the outsides, anything that grows outside the cage, they actually develop and promote the fruiting wood inside your pen. And you can make the circle as  as wide as you want around your fruit tree. That was a simple way of keeping deer out by keeping the trees low. But at the same time having the deer come in and work for you, by nibbling the sides and keeping the tree in check. And then you just leave one end open, not open. I would use baling wire and just bail wire one where the two ends come together. And then whenever I wanted to get into the tree, just take the baling wire back, get inside do my work, do my picking whatever, then bail wire it back closed.

Farmer Fred  10:52

There you go. Deer proof your fruit trees the easy way. Yeah, still have plenty of fruit for yourself.

Ed Laivo  10:58

Yeah, yeah. And have a reasonable size tree as well. Exactly.

Farmer Fred  11:01

So, in total, it would take probably two to three seasons to take a overgrown fruit tree down to what we'll call "backyard orchard culture" size.

Ed Laivo  11:13

Yeah, yeah, but it's two, it's two seasons and the third season, you decide what heights, you're going to maintain that. And now you start to get particular about, you know what limbs you're leaving, and you start to look at, you know, you might take a pruning class at that point, because now your trees are down to a  reasonable size. And you would get what I always call crow's feet at the top of every one of these cuts, where you have a number of different branches all breaking at one time and one space. Now that third season, you're going to come in want to come in and look at which of these groups of branches do you want to keep and promote, and then maintain those and keep those in check and eliminate everything else. And then you go into opening the center of your tree at that time and making sure you got plenty of light and air movement going through your tree and, and watching where your fruit set is. So that  you're promoting your fruit set down lower in your canopy, as well.

Farmer Fred  12:06

So that would be your thinning cuts then.

Ed Laivo  12:09

Yeah, your thinning cuts, right? Yeah, heading cuts are what you're using during the development period with a reconstruction period. Yeah, we done that a number of times, you know, a lot of times, because typically, that would be the big problem. Oh my gosh, you know, "I just listened to your lecture and my tree is 12 to 15 feet tall". And what do I do? The first house I moved into in Modesto had an apricot tree that's separated my neighbor and I and the apricot tree was roughly about 12 feet tall. And it was a wonderful apricot tree, but it hung way over into my yard and my neighbor came over, he was wonderful, he's one of my closest friends now. He came over and said, Listen, you know, I understand the tree. I'm gonna cut it down. I said like, ducks you are. I said, we're gonna just bring the tree down. And we had we had

Farmer Fred  13:05

When you said that you meant to bring the tree down in size.

Ed Laivo  13:08

Yeah, we're gonna bring the tree down. I said, we're gonna bring the tree down so that I can enjoy this side of the tree and you can enjoy your side like you always have. And it took me two seasons and I brought the whole apricot down. We had eight foot fences, separating our yards in Modesto. So the tree's canopy actually came right over the top of the fence. It was beautiful, this beautiful tree. And it produced all  kinds of great fruit and we maintained it there, for all I know, it's still there.

Farmer Fred  13:33

There you go.  You and your saw, good.

Ed Laivo  13:36

Yeah, I like to prune.

Farmer Fred  13:40

But I think for most people, especially if they're not adept at, especially pruning trees, is to keep your feet firmly on the ground.

Ed Laivo  13:50

Yeah. It'll mean it when you start getting up in the ladders and stuff like that. I mean, that becomes dangerous. And yeah, and on top of that, I mean, do you need it that tall? I mean, there are some people who would need it that tall, they would say I'm canning and I have to can you know hundreds of bottles of, you know, peaches a year. And so I really am looking for the biggest tree possible. Now that's fine. But most people barely get off of a typical peach tree could barely eat 20 to 50 pieces of fruit off of the entire fruit for the entire season tree in an average season. So you know, why have a tree that produces 500?

Farmer Fred  14:30

Yeah, and by having a smaller tree, that means you have room for more trees.

Ed Laivo  14:36

Yeah, that and probably the most important thing going into these drier periods that we're, of course, experiencing. Keep in mind that when you're keeping these trees shorter, they're using less water. 

Farmer Fred  14:47

Good point and mulching, too. 

Ed Laivo  14:49

Mulching is tremendously important. That should be a mandate in California home gardening.

Farmer Fred  14:55

On Fabulous Fruit Friday, we've heard about the O'Henry peach and good advice ftom Ed Laivo, as well, about bringing down an overgrown fruit tree to a more manageable height, maybe six or seven feet tall, and yes, you can do it. Ed Laivo, Tomorrow'sHarvest.com is the website, a division of Burchell Nursery. Thanks for another Fabulous Fruit Friday.

Ed Laivo  15:16

My pleasure, Fred, and we'll come up with something interesting for our next visit.

Farmer Fred  15:27

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Farmer Fred  16:34

We answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics Podcast. We like to bring in our favorite retired college horticultural Professor, Debbie Flower, to help us out on these. You can get questions to us in a myriad of ways. Maybe you want to hear your voice? Well, you could give us a call at 916-292-8964. That's 916-292-8964. You could text your message and picture that way as well. E-mail? Sure send it to Fred at farmerfred.com. So Debbie, let's tackle this email question from Richard in southwest Utah, zone 8a, as he points out. He says, "I'm going to plant some stone fruit trees in my garden this week, doubling them up as has been suggested on your show, planting them only 18 inches apart and keep them pruned to less than seven feet tall. Our summers here in southwest Utah are similar to Las Vegas, but about five degrees cooler, the trees will have full sun all day long. The question is, should I plant the trees north-south or east-west, or it doesn't really not make a difference?" By the way, I would like to point out that the practice, the theory of planting fruit trees 18 inches apart was something we espoused, oh, I don't know. 25 years ago.

Debbie Flower  17:47

Yeah, it was a fashion for a while. it was Yeah.

Farmer Fred  17:50

And frankly, in this day and age, you're better off, I think in retrospect, we have found out, plant them, not three trees in one hole 18 inches apart, but  maybe one tree per hole and plant the trees, maybe six or seven feet apart. And then keep the size no taller than you can reach.

Debbie Flower  18:09

18 inches is definitely too close. six to seven feet is good. And it's a lot of work. The closer together the end, the shorter you want to keep them, the more work you're gonna have to do in pruning. Just keep that in mind. It's not going to just happen on its own, you know.

Farmer Fred  18:26

But at least you won't be on a ladder. So there's that.

Debbie Flower  18:29

I know that's very true. It's just something that you have. You have to keep in mind there is continuous maintenance to be done.

Farmer Fred  18:39

Yeah, but actually, it's not all that much work. If you don't let your trees get any taller than you can reach from the ground, then you can just  head them back. I know you're not gonna agree with this, but head it back when you're thinning the fruit. And then again later in the summer when you're harvesting the fruit and just prune it back those branches and you could I guess prune it back to a crossing branch to no more than you can extend with a pair of shears in your hand.

Debbie Flower  19:07

Right? No, I agree with that. Okay, the heading back has been very hard for me to do because I have so much training in thinning pruning, but so I've had to adjust and it has been very hard for me, but I'm getting there. Okay.

Farmer Fred  19:23

All right. Thinning is where you're taking a branch back to a crossing branch, an intersection with another branch. And heading just means chopping it basically.

Debbie Flower  19:33

Right, at a random location. And so just stand there as you say, with the pruning shears in your hand and whatever you can reach and I actually go a little bit lower than that because I know it's going to grow from that point. And cut it off.

Farmer Fred  19:47

There you go. Alright, so anyway, we solved that issue. But we have the fact that Richard in southwest Utah where it's only five degrees cooler than Las Vegas, which gets to 120 degrees in the summertime. I'm wondering, are those trees going to have full sun all day long? Is there really a concern about north south or east or west?

Debbie Flower  20:06

Yes, there could be. The times I've approached this subject is when we talk about orienting a greenhouse, and the scientific studies that have looked at this. So you want the goal being to orient it so that you get enough sun, or the most sun year round. And the studies that have looked at this say that the greenhouse should be oriented east to west. And it's because there will be some shade from plant to plant in the summer, when it's very hot, Las Vegas gets very hot, so so does Southwest Utah. But in winter, when the sun is in the southern hemisphere, much more than it is overhead, then all the plants will get some sun in winter. However, with a growing row of trees, that east to west orientation is going to result in a lot more growth on the first plant on either end, on the east end and on the West End. So that maintenance will be required. If you let that plant grow much bigger than the others, then your summer production will be declined on the plants in the middle.

Farmer Fred  21:13

Because the sun is in the south.

Debbie Flower  21:15

Well, in the summer, the sun is overhead more. Yeah. And so the eastern plant gets more sun than its overhead, everybody gets sun, then the sun goes to set and the western plant gets more sun. So those two plants may grow more vigorously. So you might want to put your more dwarf plants on either end like that.

Farmer Fred  21:34

For those of you listening in Australia, nevermind.

Debbie Flower  21:37

Yes, really? This is north of the equator.

Farmer Fred  21:41

Yes. All right. So then you are espousing situating fruit trees to run north-south?

Debbie Flower  21:48

No, actually. I know I said that before. But I just did a little research and thought about the greenhouses at ARC,

Farmer Fred  22:00

American River College.

Debbie Flower  22:02

Right, which we we figured out, we're oriented correctly, except for one of them. So east-west is actually the scientifically recommended direction for a greenhouse. And I'm translating that to plants. I don't have I have experience I've experienced growing a cherry tree that was grafted to three different cultivars, and the east and west side grew the most. And the one that was on the south actually really was struggling, I had to pay a lot of attention to pruning the cultivars on the east and west side of this single tree, so that the the one on the south got enough sun, which doesn't seem logical, but that's how it worked. And with greenhouses, it's at almost all latitudes, East-West is the recommended orientation, so that the all the plants get, or that the greenhouse gets enough sun in the winter. If these are deciduous trees, that may not be critical.

Farmer Fred  23:02

Okay, so basically, orient your fruit trees, in all considerations, so that they're not casting shade onto the rest of your garden.

Debbie Flower  23:14

Right. I think ultimately, it doesn't matter. He should orient them the way that's going to work best in his landscape that you can get to them for pruning, that the irrigation works, you know, there are all kinds of fences and houses and other plants in the garden to consider. And I think I would use that input to come up with the best that works for his landscape.

Farmer Fred  23:37

Oh, okay, we made it easy. My concern then is keeping fruit trees alive in a climate where summertime temperatures will easily get to 110. And I'm thinking well, you better use a lot of mulch.

Debbie Flower  23:52

Right. irrigation and mulch. Yes. And sometimes afternoon shade depending on what plant you're looking at. Sometimes afternoon shade can be beneficial for fruit trees or for vegetable garden if you're in a really hot location.

Farmer Fred  24:06

Good luck, Richard. Orient those fruit trees, whichever suits your fancy or that your wife approves of. Your choice. All right, Debbie Flower. Once again, thank you for helping us answer some garden questions.

Debbie Flower  24:19

Always fun to do it. Thank you.

Farmer Fred  24:30

The warmer weather means that fruit trees and berry bushes will soon spring to life, with the promise of tasty, nutritious fresh fruit for you and your family. What are you waiting for? A website for more information? OK, it’s Tomorrow’s Harvest dot com, your go-to site for a complete line of backyard fruit trees and bushes. Tomorrows harvest fine line of fruit trees is the result of 75 years of developing, testing and growing.  For well over 75 years three generations of the Burchell family have been at the forefront of research and development of plants of the highest quality. All of these beautiful, edible plants have been carefully cultivated for your home garden. And they come in Plantable Paper Pots, ready for you to stick directly in the ground, pot and all. Look for Tomorrow’s Harvest fruit trees, including the Golden Sweet Apricot, at better retail nurseries. And If your favorite nursery doesn’t carry any of Tomorrows Harvest fruit, nut and berry varieties, you can order them directly from Tomorrows harvest dot. com.   Let the Burchell family’s three generations of experience take root in your home orchard, landscape and garden. Tomorrows Harvest: It’s goodness you can grow. To find out more about their nutritious and delicious fruit and nut varieties, visit tomorrowsharvest.com. 

Farmer Fred  25:50

Late April and early May is a good time for planting many easy to grow vegetables from seed, that includes carrots, corn, cucumbers, eggplants, radishes, summer squash, and winter squash. Now, of course, it all depends where you live. If you live in a colder climate, it might be closer to Mother's Day or even the first of June that you might be doing this. Well, after everybody gets their seeds in, there is a problem because the emerging plants are small. Many gardeners don't have the heart to thin them out to their proper spacing. This results in an undersized crop, greater incidence of pests and diseases, or too much of a good thing. For instance, squash like zucchini, that's a perfect example. Now if you've planted zucchini before you know what I'm talking about, but how many of you have actually read the instructions on a seed package on how to plant zucchini? Well, here's the instructions found on a Burpee seed packet. It says to sow one to two seeds of zucchini about 36 inches apart. Cover with one inch of fine soil, firm lightly, and keep evenly moist. Zucchini seedlings emerge in 10 to 14 days. Thin to one plant when seedlings have two sets of leaves. Well, I'm here to tell you that even hardened backyard farmers like myself tend to ignore those spacing instructions, let alone just keeping one zucchini plant, but every year it happens. Overwhelmed gardeners go on midnight runs during August surreptitiously placing bags of oversized zucchini on neighbor's front porches. The bottom line, basically, is read and follow all planting instructions. They aren't kidding. Thinning also applies to your backyard deciduous fruit trees if you live in a climate that allows you to grow apples, peaches, nectarines, plums, apricot, plum apricot, sometimes called pluot, and a lot more. Well, they need a bit of tough love this month as well and that's thinning the fruit. Now it might break your heart to remove most of those future edibles in April or May. However, leaving six inches or more of space between each piece of fruit now will result in larger fruit and less stress on your trees this summer. You won't have to worry about broken branches that are going to start sagging and probably breaking as the overcrowded fruit gets heavier and heavier. Moreover, because of the lack of crowded and rubbing fruit, the remaining fruit is going to have better exposure and will ripen more evenly. The good news is there's plenty of food-producing backyard vines, shrubs and trees that don't require crop thinning because of their small size. For example, cherries aren't usually thinned from backyard trees, other small fruited plants like blueberries, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, they don't require fruit thinning, however, they may need their older wood or runners removed annually after harvest. If you live in a climate that allows you to grow nut crops like almonds and walnuts, they don't need thinning. And if you live where you can grow citrus trees, oranges, lemons, mandarins, limes and other fruit bearing evergreen trees, they don't usually require much fruit thinning either. And one more final tip: if you want to suppress weeds, moderate soil temperature, preserve soil moisture, then add several inches of an organic mulch beneath all your fruit trees to conserve precious soil moisture. And what's nice, too, as that mulch breaks down, it feeds the soil but don't let that mulch touch up against the trunk of the tree. You can spread it throughout the entire understory of the tree, but keep it about two to three inches away from the trunk to avoid rotting issues.

Farmer Fred  29:28

Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday and is brought to you by Smart Pots. It’s available just about anywhere podcasts are handed out. And that includes Apple podcasts, I Heart Radio, Spotify, Stitcher, Overcast, Podcast Addict, CastBox and Google podcasts. And for Northern California gardeners, check out this podcast: the Green Acres Garden Podcast with Farmer Fred, also available wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.