162 'Prune'-ciples: Rose Pruning Tips for Maximum Roses!

In USDA Zones 8, 9 and 10, it’s Rose Pruning Season! And soon enough after frost season passes, everyone else across the country will be faced with the challenge of tackling an overgrown, aging, rose bush. How best to prune that rose bush to regain maximum rose production? We talk with a Master Rosarian who knows. We’ve got rose pruning tips, as well as advice for the best pruning tools to use and clothes to wear while pruning those prickly roses.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory, it’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. 

And we will do it all in a bit over 30 minutes. Let’s get started!

November through January, the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast slows its production schedule. Look for new episodes each Friday. In February, we will return to twice a week podcasts, on Tuesdays and Fridays.

Pictured:
Distant Drums Rose, which can be grown in as cold a climate as USDA Zone 4

Links:
Subscribe to the free, Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter
Smart Pots
Dave Wilson Nursery
American Rose Society (includes local rose club information)
American Rose Society Handbook for Selecting Roses
Video: Pruning/Rejuvenating a Climbing Rose
Bypass-style Hand Pruners
Bypass-Style Loppers
Rechargeable Reciprocating Saw
Pruning gloves, arm protectors for roses

More episodes and info available at Garden Basics with Farmer Fred

Live links, product information, transcripts, and chapters available at the Buzzsprout home site for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred. 

Got a garden question? 

• Leave an audio question without making a phone call via Speakpipe, at https://www.speakpipe.com/gardenbasics

• Call or text us the question: 916-292-8964. 

• E-mail: fred@farmerfred.com 

All About Farmer Fred:
The  Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter
Farmer Fred website: http://farmerfred.com

Daily Garden tips and snark on Twitter

The Farmer Fred Rant! Blog

Facebook:  "Get Growing with Farmer Fred"

Instagram: farmerfredhoffman

Farmer Fred Garden Videos on YouTube

As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases from possible links mentione

Thank you for listening, subscribing and commenting on the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast and the Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter.

Chapters

• 1:27 Prune Roses for Maximum Bloom
• 11:33 Smart Pots!
• 12:38 Dave Wilson Nursery
• 27:23 Garden Basics Newsletter

Transcript

GB 162 Rose Pruning TRANSCRIPT

39:44

SPEAKERS

Charlotte Owendyk, Farmer Fred

Farmer Fred  00:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred. Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot. 

Farmer Fred  00:32

In USDA Zones 8, 9 and 10, it’s Rose Pruning Season! And soon enough after frost season passes, everyone across the country will be faced with the challenge of tackling an overgrown, aging, rose bush. How best to prune that rose bush to regain maximum rose production? We talk with a Master Rosarian who knows. We’ve got rose pruning tips, as well as advice for the best tools to use and clothes to wear while pruning those prickly roses. We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory, it’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery.  And we will do it all in a bit over 30 minutes. Let’s get started!

Farmer Fred  01:25

If you're looking out your window at your garden, you might see your rose bushes. And this time of year, if you live in USDA zone nine, they could use a little bit of help. And for everybody across the country, sooner or later, maybe by late winter or early spring, March or April, you'll want to do something with your roses. You know what your roses would appreciate if they're ready to be pruned? It's just that - a pruning. But why prune? Let's talk with a Master Rosarian. She's Charlotte Owendyk, Master Rosarian, of the Sierra Foothills Rose Society. And Charlotte, it's a pleasure to talk with you. And I wanted to talk with you, in particular, because of your involvement with the Sierra Foothills Rose Society. People listening may say, "Well, this is just going to be about cold weather snow roses." Well, no. The Sierra Foothills Rose Society members actually extend from about 100 feet elevation, from the rice fields of Western Placer County, all the way up to Lake Tahoe, at 6000 feet elevation. So poor Charlotte has to tackle questions that range from people who are sweltering in the heat, to people who are buried in the snow. So who is perfect, then, for the Garden Basics Podcast? Let's talk to Charlotte Owendyk about roses. And Charlotte, it is rose pruning season here in California. Why prune a rose at all?

Charlotte Owendyk  02:39

We prune because roses will keep on growing, but most of us have a small yard, and we want to size them and keep them in a certain shape. We want to get rid of the dead or diseased canes that are in there. And we want to reduce the number of canes because then our remaining blooms will be bigger. And we also want to get rid of the older canes, so we have more vigorous canes, and they'll produce a lot more roses on each cane. So those are the primary reasons we prune.

Farmer Fred  03:13

It's pretty easy to to tell the difference between a young cane and an old cane, isn't it?

Charlotte Owendyk  03:17

Oh yeah. I like to make a joke. It's the gray beards or the gray-haired ones you want to get rid of. It makes a tremendous difference. My sister is 94 years old, and I go down there every January. She lives in Southern California, and her roses were looking really bad. Her husband had done it for a while and they just topped them. They were basically all gray canes. I looked at them. I didn't know how to prune them. So I just took out the worst of the worst gray canes. And then I did the regular pruning for sizing and all that kind of stuff. And reducing crossing canes and stuff. And the next year, I came back, and it was just a little bit easier to prune because I had some brand new green canes that came in the place of the ones that I got rid of. So essentially, in about five plus years,  I went from all grey canes to all green canes.

Farmer Fred  04:18

The green games will produce flowers. But when that cane gets old and gray, does it have less ability to produce flowers?

Charlotte Owendyk  04:26

Yes, yes, it just doesn't have the vigor.

Farmer Fred  04:29

I feel sorry for those poor canes.

Charlotte Owendyk  04:33

They are just not as vigorous. You take a look at a puppy. They can run around and do a lot of things. But as anything gets older, they get slower. In a gray cane of a rose bush,  the xylem which brings the water up and the food is not as activ. It just is not as vigorous and so it doesn't produce as much bloom. So we have learned over time that we have to get rid of the gray canes. But you don't want to do them all at once. You just do maybe one a year and then over time, you won't have gray canes anymore.  Some of these canes that I've seen on roses in other people's yards, all they pruned was the top. So these canes are maybe two three inches in diameter and they're gray wood. Well, they may produce two or three roses a year. They don't grow or bloom at all the rest of the season. They just do a little bit  in the early spring. And that's it. My roses are blooming all year round because I want those green canes. I want them to work hard for me.

Farmer Fred  05:37

All right. The only problem with all that are these little things that protrude from each of those canes. Some varieties have more than others, and of course we're talking about - I won't say thorns -even though I would like to call them thorns. 

Charlotte Owendyk  05:52

I'm so proud of you. 

Farmer Fred  05:53

Thank you. Can I call them prickles instead?

Charlotte Owendyk  05:56

Yes. That's the biological term for them. They're not thorns. It's just where they erupt from the the epidermis on the skin  of the plant and there's a differentiation, so they're called prickles. But I don't care. They're still pokey things that most people call thorns. There are a few roses, like Memorial Day, that have very, very few prickles. It's amazing that you can touch almost all along their canes and there's just a very few prickles on the whole plant.

Farmer Fred  06:32

So how do you protect yourself from getting pricked by the prickles?

Charlotte Owendyk  06:36

Oh well, we wear leather gloves. When I'm doing a really big bushy plant, I like to wear gloves that come up to my my elbow. And, I look for gloves that are goat skin. Goat skin is is a little tougher than leather, and it's harder for those prickles to punch in through it. And then the rest is done with cowhide. And that's what I wear. But sometimes when the plants are small and  I'm don't have  tons and tons of canes to deal with, I just wear short little leather gloves on my hands. And I watch what I do.  I've been doing this for many years. My husband,  he goes out there. He gets near a rosebush. He gets stuck by a prickle, but I very seldom do. Because  I look for it and I've trained myself to look for it, but then I reach for places, like just underneath the flower on top of a cane. There are not going to be as many prickles there. They're going to be smaller. So that's one thing. You really got to have gloves, at least leather gloves.

Farmer Fred  07:41

What else are you wearing? In my experience with pruning roses, I've discovered that if I wear a nylon jacket, it's better  than wearing a cotton shirt or something like that which will probably get snagged.

Charlotte Owendyk  07:54

You know, I wear a sweatshirt or I always wear a long sleeve shirt with a sweatshirt over it and I don't wear the best clothes because I might get caught on one of those things and get little holes in my T shirt. And I have a vest that I oftentimes wear, so I always have long jeans on because I want to protect my legs. 

Farmer Fred  08:11

I am always suspicious of gardeners in nice clothes.

Charlotte Owendyk  08:16

They don't really garden. I use my oldest clothes, and I do the SPF 50 T shirts and they get so thin. I say, "well this doesn't work anymore. It's too thin. I can almost see through it." Yes, I'm a good gardener because I wear old clothes.

Farmer Fred  08:34

What's in your weapon arsenal? What do you use to prune roses with?

Charlotte Owendyk  08:38

Bypass pruners and loppers are what we use. A bypass has a scissor action. The blades cross over each other. There's another one, an anvil pruner. 

Farmer Fred  08:53

You don't want that.

Charlotte Owendyk  08:54

No, you don't want that. Because they crunch the cane. That's why you should use a bypass pruner; and the sharper, the better. So I always recommend that before you go out and begin your pruning, to sharpen with a diamond sharpener.  Bypass pruners, they have a little beveled edge, you just kind of smooth along the edge about three or four times or five times, and then try it. It should cut through a pencil-size cane like butter, if it's sharp enough.  The more you have to prune, you may have to repeat the sharpening. But it saves the wear and tear on your hand. You can sharpen your loppers, too, which are basically bypass pruners with a longer handle. That way, you can get a little bit more torque. And those are usually used on inch or inch and a half diameter canes. If you get a larger cane you may even have to use a small version of a reciprocating saw if you don't have the strength to deal with that with loppers. 

Farmer Fred  10:07

Power Tools!

Charlotte Owendyk  10:08

Yes.  I've got a climber. It's about two inches in diameter that has gray canes, and I've got canes coming off of it, but it's time to pull the gray canes out because I want some new green canes coming from the bottom. I need to use a reciprocating saw. And because they have narrow little blades on them, it's easy to cut through it and kind of angle through it with the reciprocating saw. So if you have more than  50 roses, you invariably have a reciprocating saw, because it's just easier.

Farmer Fred  10:41

And this reciprocating saw, I guess, is a rechargeable. You're not dragging a cord.

Charlotte Owendyk  10:47

Yes, yes. I love those rechargeables. It works really good for a lot of different things.

Farmer Fred  10:54

So people are now wondering, well, how many roses does she have?

Charlotte Owendyk  10:57

350

Farmer Fred  10:59

You're busy!

Charlotte Owendyk  11:00

Yeah, but you know what? I'm lucky because it's my form of exercise. I garden instead of going to the gym and being indoors. I go outside and enjoy it. There are  mallards in the backyard, other kinds of wildlife, too. It's just nicer outside than in a gym, in my book. So  I actually got more in shape when I retired and start gardening full time.

Farmer Fred  11:32

Smart Pots. It's the original award winning fabric planter. It's sold worldwide and Smart Pots are proudly made 100% in the USA. Smart Pots, by the way, are BPA-free with no risk of chemicals leaching into your soil, your herbs, vegetables and other animals. That's why organic growers prefer Smart Pots. And they last for years. Some gardeners have been using the same Smart Pots for over a decade. Smart Pots breathable fabric creates a healthy root structure for plants. Because the fabric breathes, Smart Pots are better suited than plastic pots, especially for really hot and really cold climates. And unlike a plastic pot, the fabric won't crack or break from frost or when dropped. For more information, visit SmartPots.com/Fred. And don't forget that "slash Fred" part, because on that page are details of discounts when you buy Smart Pots at Amazon. Visit SmartPots.com/Fred.

Farmer Fred  12:32

If you haven’t shopped at your favorite independently owned nursery lately, you’re missing out! Now arriving at California, Arizona and Texas nurseries: Dave Wilson Nursery’s excellent lineup of Farmers Market Favorites of great tasting, healthy, fruit and nut varieties. They are already potted up and ready to be planted. We’re talking about almonds, blackberries, blueberries, boysenberries, figs, grapes, hops, kiwi, mulberries, olives, pomegranates and much more! For you gardeners in the pacific northwest, mountain and southern states, look for Dave Wilson’s Farmers Market Favorites in January and February. You want more? By the second week in January, you’ll find your favorite Dave Wilson bare root deciduous fruit trees in stock, including my favorite, the plum-apricot cross, the Pluot. Wholesale grower Dave Wilson Nursery has probably the best lineup of great tasting fruit and nut trees of any grower in the U.S. Find out more at their website, DaveWilson dot com. While you’re there, check out all the videos they have on how to plant and grow all their delicious varieties of fruit and nut trees. Plus, at dave wilson dot com, you can find the nursery nearest you that carries Dave Wilson plants. Your harvest to better health begins at Dave Wilson dot com. 

Farmer Fred  13:56

Well, I've noticed that all the rosarians I know are peaceful, loving people. And I think the reason for that is they're taking out all their aggressions on their rose bushes with their pruners and their reciprocating saws.

Charlotte Owendyk  14:08

Oh, yes. And you know what, we have another thing that we can do. It's called shovel pruning.

Farmer Fred  14:15

Ah, all right now we're getting into the methodology of pruning, which is a good thing to get into. The timing for pruning, of course is important and right now people in USDA Zones 8 and 9 may be seeing little buds forming on their rose canes and that's the time to get in there and prune. And like I was mentioning earlier, this will be something that people in colder zones will be doing a little later on, perhaps late winter or early spring.

Charlotte Owendyk  14:39

Right. You normally start pruning after the last hard frost. In our area, a hard frost isn't very hard. So I usually start pruning just around Christmas and we try to wrap up here in the Sacramento Valley area, which is much lower elevations, by Valentine's Day. But the people up the hill, towards Tahoe, they're gonna wait till they got a real load of snow there. They're doing nothing now, they're taking it easy and enjoying their treks in the snow. And when that finally melts, and they don't have to worry about any additional frost, then they'll take a look at their roses. Then you remove the dead, diseased, and damaged canes. You get rid of all those. And when you cut a cane, you look at the inside. Is the center of it nice and white? If it isn't, if it's brownish, that's means you've probably had a borer, and you have to go to cut a little bit further down the cane. And, once you get a white cane,  it's perfect. You don't have to worry if it's cut at an angle or anything like that. Most people like to have the bud which is where if a branch comes out, that's where it's coming out. A bud looks like a pimple, there's a little line where the leaf was attached. And right above that is a pimple, and that's where a new cane will come out. So that's really about it.

Farmer Fred  16:05

No, it's not. We've hardly scratched the surface

Charlotte Owendyk  16:08

Oh really? Of course, prune for size and shape.

Farmer Fred  16:12

We'll get into that. But I want to talk about where you make that cut. Would you make it right above that pimple, choosing one that facing outwards? 

Charlotte Owendyk  16:22

Yes. Usually about a quarter inch above that. And you know, a quarter inch, three eighths inch, it doesn't make a difference, but you don't want to put a steep angle where you cut. Such a steep angle, the bud is kind of sticking by the side and there's a V shaped kind of plateau next to it, just cut it straight across, about a quarter of an inch to three eighths of an inch above that, you're fine. And most of the time we like an outward facing bud, because we want to keep the center of the plant open. So it has good air circulation. The roses have to fight against some fungal diseases like black spot and mildew. And if you have a more open area in the center, it's easier for the plant. It won't pick up the powdery mildew or the black spot in the center. So that's one of the things we look to have: an open structure. For example, hybrid tea roses, they should be pruned to a vase shape. And so you want to basically have most of the canes on the outside, and no criss crossing canes in the center. And you want an open V- shape. And maybe here we have a height of two, to maybe two and a half or three feet tall. It depends. If it's a very tall hybrid tea rose, and some of them are, you have an idea of how tall you want it. If your rose plant, at the end of the season, is seven, eight feet tall, you probably don't need to cut it down  to two feet. You may leave it at two and a half to three feet. If it's a four or five foot tall plant, then it probably should be pruned to  two or two and a half feet tall.

Farmer Fred  18:00

We'll get into all these different varieties of roses because we're going to be throwing around some unfamiliar terms, possibly, to you, like floribunda, grandiflora, hybrid tea, things like that. So we'll get we'll get into that.

Charlotte Owendyk  18:11

It's not hard, folks, just pick out what you really like.

Farmer Fred  18:15

I have a more basic question for you though. Since since you have over 300 roses, do you keep a garden diary and keep track of the performances of these roses?

Charlotte Owendyk  18:25

350 is not that many, because I'm out in the garden all the time. But I do have an inventory. I do track which ones perform well. If you belong to the Rose Society or you are a Master Gardener, we ask them to rate garden roses. And so if there's a new variety out, we'll rate those. And that's one of the things: how well does it perform in our garden? So, I make notes to myself. Especially for the newer varieties because I want to do a good job. The American Rose Society puts out a book called Handbook for Roses. And it lists all the roses with an ARS rating. ARS ratings go from zero to eight-plus. Anything with an eight or more is the very best. And the really fabulous roses are seven and a half to eight-plus. And I have a list I was just telling you about a little bit earlier, my bulletproof roses, and the majority of those are rated 7.5 to eight.They're outstanding roses and a lot of them have been in commerce for a long time. They are very disease resistant. I like them because they're vigorous, and they produce a lot of bloom.

Farmer Fred  19:38

And we're going to get into those bulletproof roses in the newsletter, the Garden Basics newsletter, which has its own podcast, so we'll be talking about that over there. So if you want more information about how to get the Garden Basics newsletter, we'll have a link to it in today's show notes. You can find information about it at farmerfred.com , too. What I'm getting at is this: the fact that with so many roses that you have, probably in late summer and fall, you're walking down a row of roses. And you look at a rose and you say, "you haven't done diddly for me."

Charlotte Owendyk  20:09

That's exactly what I do. Are there some roses, I know I'm going to be shovel pruning. And I'm pruning my roses right now. And I've already added two more roses to the shovel-prune list. And I basically cut the canes down to two or three inches high. And then I'm just going to take my shovel to them when I'm finished pruning them and get rid of them at that point, because they didn't bloom for me. They didn't do squat. And if it didn't bloom more, it's just why grow them? I have other things I can grow. I'm a bit of a plantaholic. And so I want blooms.  I love blooms.  I want something that makes my heart sing.

Farmer Fred  20:52

But also, it gives you the chance to lessen disease issues. If you live in an area where you are beset with fungal diseases, which may be due to high humidity and poor air circulation among your roses, shovel pruning, removing an entire rosebush, you're improving the air circulation and lessening the chance of problems.

Charlotte Owendyk  21:10

That's true. And we have another name for those plants. There are some plants that are mildew magnets. And they attract diseases. The ones that I'm mentioning that are bulletproof, they're very, very disease resistant. In the last 10-15 years, they have done a lot to improve the disease resistance of roses. I'm fact, I have very few roses unless they were outstanding before, that are not newer roses. Because the newer roses, I don't see the black spot on them, I don't have the powdery mildew. I do not spray. Still, when I do see it, it means I've had a very wet spring and I may drop some leaves. But because I fertilize well, right after I prune, they put out a whole new growth of green canes and then I don't have any fungal issues, at least where I live.

Farmer Fred  22:08

Alright, so before we start hacking away here, let's do one bit of housecleaning here and talk about where people can find this American Rose Society Handbook for Selecting Roses that we talked about earlier. That would be a website like rose.org.

Charlotte Owendyk  22:22

That's correct. And it's fun. You could sign up for a newsletter that's called Fragrant Roses. And it has a lot. They have editor that puts a variety of different articles in there. It's fun to read. It has a lot of droolworthy pictures of roses. We'd like to call them rose porn. They also have a little store where you can buy the Handbook for Roses.  I know you have a copy because I gave you some. It includes most of the roses that are available in commerce. And then it also highlights the top rated roses. So if you want to look under hybrid teas, then it lists all the ones that are really the best of the best. They also have the Gamble Medal winners. Those are fragrant roses. And it lists all the roses that won national or even worldwide competition for fragrance. It lists those roses because a lot of people want a very fragrant rose. So it's a guide to shopping for roses.

Farmer Fred  23:24

Well, that leads me to a very good question that I get to ask because it's my podcast. It's about my own  roses. One rose that I definitely have in my garden, even though I have limited amounts of sunlight, but that's getting better, I must say.

Charlotte Owendyk  23:40

I've heard you've been getting rid of trees.

Farmer Fred  23:43

And the neighbors have been helping, too. But the Lyda Rose, which I first saw at the Old City Cemetery in Sacramento. I just fell in love with that rose. 

Charlotte Owendyk  23:53

It looks like an Apple Blossom. 

Farmer Fred  23:54

It does. Yeah. And it's just gorgeous. It's it's very productive. It's a shrub rose. And its rating, according to the American Rose Society, is an 8.9.

Charlotte Owendyk  24:08

It's a very good rose. I have one in the front yard. it's in a shrub row. So it has a much bigger presence. It is about five feet in diameter and about five, six feet tall. And I have to yet prune it, but it's along my walkway, to my front door. People look at it and ask: "What is that plant? Is it a rose?" I said yes. And it's always in bloom.

Farmer Fred  24:37

The Lyda Rose is in a focal point in my backyard and I just love it all spring, summer and fall. It's a shrub rose, as you said. How do you prune a shrub rose?

Charlotte Owendyk  24:48

It's the same basic principles. You get rid of those old gray canes. You get rid of the damaged, dead, and diseased canes. And then you open it up in the inside. And then maybe cut it back about a third to a half from the size it was before you started pruning.

Farmer Fred  25:08

What if the leaves towards the bottom are turning yellow? Should I worry about that?

Charlotte Owendyk  25:12

Well, usually at the end of this season, the leaves all are yellow. But once you finish pruning, you need to strip the plant of all the leaves, and then clean up all the leaf detritus and any other clippings that may have fallen around the tree, because that plant material can harbor fungi. Most plants get fungi from spores. They are like little seeds. They're on that detritus in the soil or on top of the soil. Any rain that comes down, it splashes up and onto the new growth and onto the leaves, and that's when you get a reinfection. So what we always recommend and we all do this, you can use a blower and blow the leaves toward the grass and then pick up those leaves and then toss them out. You want  to toss them out in your green waste bin. You want to get rid of that plant detritus.

Farmer Fred  26:20

I would think, too, you would also want to switch out the mulch if you have mulch around your roses. Get fresh mulch down there.

Charlotte Owendyk  26:27

Yeah, fresh mulch or compost. The top dressing smothers any remaining spores. it's another way of protecting the plant. You know, if you add compost and you add mulch, it breaks down and it feeds your soil and that's a long term betterment of your soil. If you have clay soil, or if you have a sandy soil, the solution to that is to put in more and more compost. I've put down shredded redwood bark, and that will decompose over time, too. And it just feeds the soil as it breaks down. So that's all to a benefit. And in our hot area, it slows the evaporation of water. It also keeps the soil cooler so the rose plants are happier.

Farmer Fred  27:21

Have you taken a look at the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter yet? There’s one that accompanies each episode of the Garden Basics podcast. It’s a deeper dive into what was discussed on the podcast, along with more great gardening information.  In the current edition of the newsletter, there’s a special podcast: In it, Master Rosarian Charlotte Owendyk tells us about her many choices for top performing roses that do well throughout the country; she calls it her bullet proof roses. And we’ll include her list of roses, as well as more info about rose pruning. We’ll have diagrams and links to clarify any confusion you might have about pruning roses. And to aid your rose shopping experience this winter and spring, there’ll be a deep dive to explain the characteristics of all the popular rose varieties.  You can find a link to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter in the podcast show notes; or, at Farmer Fred dot com; or, by going to substack dot com slash garden basics.  Think of it as your garden resource that goes beyond the basics. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. And it’s free. Please subscribe and share it with your gardening friends and family. The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. And thank you for listening. 

Farmer Fred  28:43

What about miniature roses? A lot of people have miniature roses because maybe they don't have much space, but they've got containers and they've got the roses sitting in the containers on patios. Those are small plants, usually. Usually. How far back do you prune those?

Charlotte Owendyk  28:57

I actually am fairly tough on miniatures. They're twiggy. The key on all of this and I think you've been trying to get me to do that is: you look at the base of the plant. A hybrid tea rose usually has a crown because  it's made with Dr. Huey. That's is the root stock. Then they bud on the plant that you want, such as a Double Delight or whatever. You look at where that rootstock comes out of the ground. That's huge. But with a miniature, they're on their own roots. Some those miniatures grow really big. They're blooming machines. I've always called them blooming machines. I like miniatures close to my patio and right next to the concrete. They just love the heat and the sunlight there. They do really really well. I reduce all those canes of the miniature roses by probably a third, if not a little bit more. Some are really super skinny or older. I get rid of the older ones first. And then I look at the base and get rid of the oldest canes. And I cut them  basically to the ground, then that me how much I have left, I may cut a few more, I don't want the really tiny little things that are only a quarter inch in diameter. I get rid of all that's too tiny. And then you bring the plant down to size. I have things that are called micro miniatures, but even those, they're usually maybe a quarter of an inch to a half an inch in diameter on the bigger cane. So you bring it down to about maybe a third to half in size. Does that help?

Farmer Fred  30:42

Yes,  thank you very much. But you brought up another very good point to make. And that is the evil Dr. Huey. It is the rootstock for just about most modern roses, isn't it? 

Charlotte Owendyk  30:58

That's correct.

Farmer Fred  30:58

 All right. And sometimes people wonder why the blooms on their rosebush changed color. They used to be a beautiful pink or yellow. Then all of a sudden, these nondescript red roses starts popping up. Sounds like a job for a pruner.

Charlotte Owendyk  31:11

Yep, those are roses that should be shovel pruned. Dr. Huey only blooms once a year in the first spring blush, around April-May here. And it's a dusky red rose, it's a semi double, it puts out these wimpy, long canes. The reason they have a rootstock is because it's very vigorous, it brings a lot of nutrients to the rose that you purchased. The Double Delight or Mr. Lincoln or Pretty Lady, it's good at feeding all the nutrients. So you have a very vigorous bush. When you are pruning a rose with a Dr. Huey rootstock that is one of the things you need to look at. And I should have mentioned this earlier and I apologize. You have what we call a sucker, and a sucker is a piece of Dr. Huey that is usually erupting about a couple inches away from the base of your rose. And it has this long, wimpy cane. You can't just clip it, you have to dig in the soil a little bit and see where it's coming from, off of a root. If it's off that root, like maybe two or three inches from the the main stem of the thing, cut that root on the side that's closer to the rose and  just pull that whole piece off. It's okay to cut one little root because you're getting rid of a sucker. If you leave it there or just cut what you see, it will put  out three or four more canes. And eventually you will lose the rose that you spent your good money for. And you'll have Dr. Huey instead.

Farmer Fred  32:59

Alright, so you can prune out Dr. Huey and still keep your original rose. Does Dr. Huey have any other telltale signs that people might notice?

Charlotte Owendyk  33:10

It's pretty thorny, okay. It's thorny, and the canes are long and thin. Most of the roses, like a hybrid tea rose, it's a vase shape. It's only four to five feet high or three feet wide. Dr. Huey's canes will be six, seven feet long and very thin and whip-like.

Farmer Fred  33:29

Okay, so you can look for that, too.  It's much like citrus in that regards. When you see the suckers and water sprouts coming and growing straight up, that's a red flag.

Charlotte Owendyk  33:39

Yes, exactly. You can't really differentiate the  leaf form from others, because that would depend on which kind of roses you have. Some roses' new growth is red, and some new growth is green. So that's not a good indicator. It's where it's coming from. It's somewhere below the crown or it's coming from the root. That's the best indicator and the best ways to identify and see where it's coming off the root and then cut it out. And that's the best way. I had one that was coming up. It was on a tree rose. I had a pittosporum nearby and I didn't notice that  basically the tree rose was declining. I was getting like 12 different canes coming from it. And so I had to cut the pittosporum way back, it was a Wheelers Dwarf pittosporum. I cut it way back just to find the root area of the tree rose to dig it out. The best way to do it is when you see it, go after it. Don't wait six months or a year.

Farmer Fred  34:39

One of the more confusing rose types to prune for a lot of people are climbers. 

Charlotte Owendyk  34:47

Oh yeah. 

Farmer Fred  34:47

Is that even able to be described on a podcast? Or should I just link to a video?

Charlotte Owendyk  34:52

Link to a video. Yeah, it's much easier because it's  a little bit different. It's much better to watch a video. The basics are the same, though. You've going to remove dead, diseased, damaged canes; and you get rid of the gray canes. I'm going to be taking my reciprocating saw and getting rid of the two inch cane in the center on my "The Impressionist" climbing rose. I've got a bunch of new green canes on the side of it, so it won't reduce the amount of bloom I have, but it's too old. So I'm getting rid of that. But what you do, then, depending if you have it along a fence, the best thing to do is make your canes run horizontal, then each of those bud eyes will grow up and form a flower on each end. If you let that one cane just go the top, just go straight up and down, it will only have a flower at the very top. So that's we try to make all our canes as horizontal as possible for climbers.  You can take a look at Google, just say "climbing rose diagrams" and you'll see how some people will put a little S shape in them. Some climbers have such stiff canes I treat them like a very tall hybrid tea. So that sometimes you need to talk people through that and maybe, for example, my club, we're going to have a special session for those people that are interested. We have one member who has about almost 30 climbers in a quarter acre lot. It's stunning. It's been in Garden Gate Magazine. They did a special publication and she was a featured article. It's very French inspired. She does arches. She has 17 arches in a row down her side yard. It's absolutely stunning. Let me tell you a group of us worked on those 17. With help. Two of us did 17 roses in one afternoon it was a big job. Because climbers take a little bit more work. You almost have to take a look at it and imagine some of the canes off the structure; and then put them back on. So that that's where it takes a little bit of work.

Farmer Fred  37:37

in the newsletter that will accompany this episode, I'm going to have definitions of floribunda, grandiflora, hybrid tea, shrub roses, old garden roses and other varieties of roses to help us speed along here. And I'll probably find a good link that has some good diagrams for pruning climbing roses as well. I noticed earlier you used the word, "prune-ciples". I'm going to be using that as the title of this episode.

Charlotte Owendyk  38:10

Oh, I'm I'm flattered.

Farmer Fred  38:14

Did you mean to say that?

Charlotte Owendyk  38:16

Um, yeah, I sometimes do.  It just makes sense.

Farmer Fred  38:20

Yes, it does. Okay, well, I like that: Rose PRUNE-ciples. Charlotte Owendyk, Sierra Foothills Rose Society. Master Rosarian. Lot of great information there. Rose pruning time is here for USDA zone nine. It's coming to yours zone in just a few weeks, probably. Charlotte, thanks so much for the great rose pruning information.

Charlotte Owendyk  38:41

I'm glad you had a good time. I had a great time. Don't forget to check out rose.org and see what you can find there that may familiarize you with all things roses.

Farmer Fred  39:04

Don’t forget, if you want to learn more about the topics covered on today’s episode of Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, subscribe to the free Garden Basics newsletter, on Substack. Details are in today’s show notes. The Garden Basics Podcast will be on its winter schedule from November through January. Which means there will only be one episode per week during this three month period. It’ll come out on Fridays. Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, and we thank them for their support. Garden Basics is available for free wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.