163 Speedy, Successful Seed Germinating Tips

'Tis the season for expectant backyard gardeners. You’ve begun to sow seeds of warm season annuals and vegetables indoors, especially pepper and tomato seeds. But when will those little seeds begin to show their heads above the soil? As always, it depends. On today’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, our favorite retired college horticultural professor, Debbie Flower, has tips for speeding up seed germination rates, especially for those pokey pepper seeds, which normally could take up to three weeks to sprout! But, it takes a combination of tactics to be a successful speedy plant parent. It involves bleach, the right containers, heat, the correct application of water, the right soil mix, proper air movement and H2O2. Welcome back to high school chemistry class, kids. But, you can do it! Today, it’s speedy, successful seed germination tips, especially for the pokey peppers.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory, it’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. 

And we will do it all in a skosh over 30 minutes (more like 40 minutes). Let’s get started!

November through January, the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast slows its production schedule. Look for new episodes each Friday. In February, we will return to twice a week podcasts, on Tuesdays and Fridays.

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Chapters

• 1:57 Pepper Seed Germination Tips
• 18:36 Smart Pots!
• 19:40 Dave Wilson Nursery

Transcript

 Garden Basics 163 Speedy Seed Germination Tips 

39:55

SPEAKERS

Debbie Flower, Farmer Fred

Farmer Fred  00:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred. Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred  00:32

’Tis the season for expectant backyard gardeners. You’ve begun to sow seeds of warm season annuals and vegetables indoors, especially pepper and tomato seeds. But when will those little seeds begin to show their heads above the soil? Well, as always, it depends. On today’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, our favorite retired college horticultural professor, Debbie Flower, has tips for speeding up seed germination rates, especially for those pokey pepper seeds, which normally could take up to three weeks to sprout! But, it takes a combination of tactics to be a successful speedy plant parent. It involves bleach, the right containers, heat, the correct application of water, the right soil mix, proper air movement and H2O2. Welcome back to high school chemistry class, kids. But, you can do it. Today, it’s speedy seed germination tips, especially for the pokey peppers.  We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory, it’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery.  And we will do it all in a skosh over 30 minutes. Let’s get started! 

Farmer Fred  01:55

Well here it is, the dead of winter. And you know what that means for us here in USDA zone nine. It's pepper seeds starting time. Yay. It's spring! It's spring! We can start pepper seeds!

Debbie Flower  02:07

I wouldn't say it's spring; but yes, we can start pepper seeds.

Farmer Fred  02:10

Thank you for that. Debbie Flower is here, our favorite retired college horticultural professor. And why is it necessary to start pepper seeds in January or February?

Debbie Flower  02:21

They're slow to germinate. 

Farmer Fred  02:23

Yeah, they're slow to germinate and slow to get up to a transplantable size.

Debbie Flower  02:27

Yes, like 12 weeks.

Farmer Fred  02:30

Here in California, basically, it's if you want tomato seeds to germinate and grow to a transplantable size, start the seeds near the end of February. They'll be ready by the end of April. And I know in this day and age of climate change, you're saying, "No, I'm planting mine the first week of March." 

Debbie Flower  02:43

Then you got to start sooner. So nine weeks, I would say for tomato seeds.

Farmer Fred  02:47

Yeah. And anything more than that, it's going to get root bound. And it's going to be jungle-like wherever you're growing them, or terribly skinny. And you don't want that either.

Debbie Flower  02:58

Skinny unless you work that stem. Yeah, make it move.

Farmer Fred  03:01

Well, we're here to talk peppers, not tomatoes. We'll talk tomatoes at a future time. Probably a month from now. But let's talk peppers. I brought out my, as you can see here if you're looking at the picture on this podcast on your phone, my pepper collection seed packets from last year. And obviously every year you don't start the whole packet. There's always some left, right. So these are from last year. They should be good this year.

Debbie Flower  03:23

Yes. Seeds in general, if they're kept dry and cool, should last two years, minimum.

Farmer Fred  03:38

So, my favorites from last year that I grew were some heirloom pepper seeds from Baker Creek Heirloom Seed Company. And they included Blot, Jimmy Nardello, which is one of my favorite Italian style peppers.

Debbie Flower  03:55

 He's got some friends you know, Jimmy.

Farmer Fred  03:58

The Ozark Giant, Zulu ,and the one that lasted the longest. One that we harvested the last one two weeks before Christmas. The Nadapeno. With a name like "Nadapeno" you're thinking well, it does looks like a jalapeno.

Debbie Flower  04:14

Yeah. 

Farmer Fred  04:14

Nada. Okay, that's the source of the name.

Farmer Fred  04:18

It's this jalapeno-like pepper that has no heat to it.  And they're very small. They're maybe two inches long. But like I say, they lasted a long time, perfect for salads or stir fry.

Debbie Flower  04:31

And that picture shows a young boy holding green pepper. No pepper is green forever.

Farmer Fred  04:41

The Nadapenos did turn purple,  in November. So there is that. Some of my other favorites that have done well for me either last year or the year before that include Big Red, which is a sweet pepper. All these by the way are sweet peppers. I've given up my hot pepper ways. My body objects.

Debbie Flower  05:04

Yeah, I understand that. 

Farmer Fred  05:06

The tequila is one of my favorites sweet peppers. It's a beautiful shiny purple. With just the best aroma of any sweet pepper I've ever cut into. The Tequila. It's an all America selections winner, too.  The Gypsy. I plant this every year, I probably have planted Gypsy sweet peppers for 20 or 30 years, because it has outstanding yield year after year after year. It starts off with sort of a pale yellow color, then it gets orange, red, and then very red. And it's very sweet when ripe. But you can harvest it when it's that pale yellow color. So it's one of the earliest to start using from the garden, the Gypsy. The Giant Marconi is one of my other favorites, too, that I plant year after year. It gets fairly large. But like the name would imply, about eight inches long or so. And then of course I got to try something new.  What's it going to be this year, Fred? Well, from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, I'm ordering something called the Super Shepherd sweet pepper. Okay. Don't know anything about it. Yep. Gotta try it though. All right. And also be planting an old favorite of mine, it's a sweet red pepper, the Corno de Toro. Which  translated is the horn of the bull.  It looks like a bull's horn. 

Debbie Flower  06:31

Wow. You've sold those peppers really well.

Farmer Fred  06:33

Thank you. And I don't have to buy any... well, I did buy a few. But most of these seeds are from last year.

Debbie Flower  06:40

Do you find that the peppers need a little more shading? Maybe just the fruit needs shading, more than a tomato plant?

Farmer Fred  06:48

Here in California, especially here in the hot Central Valley, the west side of the peppers are developing sunburn. Yes.

Debbie Flower  06:58

Yes, I've noticed that as well. 

Farmer Fred  06:59

And I'm now looking at areas that get some protection from that late afternoon sun. Yeah, but obviously pepper plants do best in full sun. And the definition of full sun is...

Debbie Flower  07:12

Six to eight hours of unobstructed rays from the sun.

Farmer Fred  07:16

Alright, six to eight hours.  I think I have that in my yard now.

Debbie Flower  07:20

Yeah, your neighbors removed some tree. 

Farmer Fred  07:22

Yeah, breaks my heart. 

Debbie Flower  07:24

I have friends who plant their peppers close together, maybe closer than it's recommended  on the packet. And this is when they go in the field, not when they're starting from seeds. So that they shade each other to protect the fruit from that sunburn.

Farmer Fred  07:39

Yeah, a lot of people make the mistake, especially on tomato plants, of cutting away foliage. And that can lead to sunburn of the tomato fruit.

Debbie Flower  07:46

That's in our climate. Now when I learned how to grow tomatoes in New Jersey when I was in college, way back when, they had us prune them to a single stem and tie them to a stake because they said we got earlier fruit set. And I have no proof of that. But that's what  I was told, that they needed to be exposed to the sun to ripen.

Farmer Fred  08:09

So here are some instructions for starting pepper seeds, which is why you came here today. Because they take a long time to germinate. You got to kind of give them a little boost, a little tingle, a little something. And one of those little somethings is some bottom heat. Yeah. Yeah, very important. And that can be a propagation mat.

Debbie Flower  08:29

Yes.  Before I owned an official propagation mat, the heater for a water bed, basically the same thing.

Farmer Fred  08:39

Yeah,  that would work. At one wholesale nursery I know in the area, when they're germinating seeds, they have tabletops, where they're running hot water through pipes that are just below the surface of the table.  And that provides just enough ambient heat to warm the soil to coax the seeds out of dormancy.

Debbie Flower  08:59

Right. And if you're growing in a greenhouse, the greenhouse does not need to be heated. If you've got the bottom heat on, under the plant under the soil. 

Farmer Fred  09:08

I did not know that. 

Debbie Flower  09:09

Yes, there are greenhouses that operate that way.  You're just trying to keep the plant warm, and it's really just the soil mass.

Farmer Fred  09:17

But after it germinates then you have to turn on the greenhouse heat, I would think.

Debbie Flower  09:21

When it gets to a certain size,  tall enough that it's going to be out of that realm of heat that  is being produced underneath it. So it depends on your source of heat. With the water, you probably get more heat than with a heating pad

Farmer Fred  09:35

Beyond the cotyledon stage.

Debbie Flower  09:37

Yeah, probably after four true leaves.

Farmer Fred  09:41

Cotyledons are not the true leaves. Those are the first two leaves that appear on any dicot .A dicot being a plant with two initial leaves.

Debbie Flower  09:51

A monocot would only have one cotyledon. Yeah. 

Farmer Fred  09:53

Name an example of a monocot.

Debbie Flower  09:55

Grasses are a monocot. Bamboo is a monocot. Yucca is a monocot. So is corn.

Farmer Fred  10:02

Okay, but most of your fruiting vegetables are dicots. So anyway, you wait for true leaves to develop. And then if you do have a greenhouse situation, maybe keep the nighttime temperature at 50?

Debbie Flower  10:15

At least. That would be a good  baseline . 45 to 86 is the range in which all plants will grow. 50 would give you a measure of protection in case something went wrong,

Farmer Fred  10:28

What sort of starting soil do you use? A seed starting mix?

Debbie Flower  10:31

A seed starting mix is very a fine non soil mix, so soilless mix, that's has some kind of organic component. peat moss is used, too. Sterile compost can be used. Coir can be used. they make peat pellets that you can use.

Farmer Fred  10:50

Have had much luck with those, the peat pellets?

Debbie Flower  10:53

One year, that's all I used. And I did have good luck with it. But I don't love their cost. They're not cheap, right. And the cheaper ones have a net around them, which is nylon, and then you go back to the garden and you find all these little nylon nets all over the place. But they're easy. They're fun to watch, if you're gardening with kids, and they have had seeds germinate in them, but I prefer to mix my own, which would be some very fine organic material as we discussed, and then something to open it up. The typical mix would include some perlite, perlite comes in different sizes, you want to get horticultural grade perlite, and it's very lightweight so the seedling can push it out of the way. And then sometimes I use vermiculite which is the mica the rock, mica broken into small pieces and heated so it expands. And then that helps to hold moisture in the media also. I often put it on top of the seeds to make sure that moisture is trapped on the top surface of the soil. When you put on a heating mat, you can be surprised at how quickly it dries out. We often start seeds in very small containers. And so there's not a lot of media. And then when you put that small container on a heating mat, they dry out surprisingly fast. And this vermiculite on the surface holds a little extra moisture again, it's just sort of a reassures me that that it's going to stay moist, even if I forget about it for a little bit too long.

Farmer Fred  12:24

So on top of the soil mix that you created the seed starting mix, could you just place the seeds and then just top it with that eighth of an inch or so of vermiculite?

Debbie Flower  12:34

Absolutely. The smaller the seed, the more chance it needs to be exposed to light in order to germinate. And vermiculite is very shiny. And you can even cover the seed completely with that eighth inch of vermiculite and the seed will get enough light that it will germinate. Now if the seed requires darkness, and I'm not aware of any vegetable seeds that require darkness, there's probably some, but if they require darkness, you would need to bury that seed in order to give it that darkness.

Farmer Fred  13:01

So I can stop poking my finger into the moist soil mix and dropping a seed in there.

Debbie Flower  13:06

Right. you do want the seed to snuggle up to the media, kind of like in a fireplace. If you have two logs and they're on either side of the fireplace, you're not gonna have a very good fire, you'll have a better fire when those logs snuggle up to each other. Okay, we'll have a better germination when that seed snuggles up to that media because it will allow the seed to moisten faster. 

Farmer Fred  13:26

We're learning a lt today, including how to build a fire. Okay, the soil mix. You can buy the seed starting mix. Yes, you can already mix that's easy, but there are all sorts of formulas online for seed starting mixes and most of them contain basically what you talked about the three ingredients like peat, or coir, 1/3 of that, 1/3 of perlite. And I use 1/3 of a very fine compost as well. 

Debbie Flower  13:55

Right. You can use compost, you can use peat, perlite, vermiculite, sometimes depends on what you're starting. With  most vegetables, moisture is good for starting. And so doing peat, perlite and compost would be a good choice.

Farmer Fred  14:10

All right, I'm waiting for the annual Debbie Flower rant about planting in moist soil.

Debbie Flower  14:17

The soil, and not everyone agrees with me on this, but the soil should be moist before it's put into the container. If you're starting seeds. Number one, the containers need to be extremely clean, no traces of media whatsoever in those containers. If you are concerned you don't think you got it clean enough, you could run it through a 10% bleach solution. But bleach is quickly disabled by organic matter. Any diseases that you might worry about and in starting seeds, the disease is called damping off. Your primary problem will be carried over from the previous crop in that soil. So you want to make sure that the containers are brand new, or they're older ones that have been completely cleaned. Then you mix your media or you get it from a bag and put it in a container. I use kitty litter containers, use a bucket, use a wheelbarrow, but the container itself needs to be clean. Again, you don't want to transmit disease from a previous crop, put the media in there and moisten it just like a wrung out sponge not dripping. If you get it too wet, don't worry too much, your container must have drain holes so that excess water will eventually drain out. Then put it in the pot and fill the pot to the very top, oh, even over the top, and then you bang it on the bench about three times. And that settles the media. Settles it enough, but not so much that you've pushed all the air pore holes out of that media. So the roots will still get oxygen. Then you plant your seed, and you always water after planting. And that helps do that snuggling of the seed against the media.

Farmer Fred  15:56

If the container you're using is a peat pot, and a lot of people use peat pots, do you need to soak that peat pot first?

Debbie Flower  16:04

Yes, I believe typically they come with directions that they do need to be soaked. And often they go inside of a rigid plastic or ceramic pots. 

Farmer Fred  16:13

Really? 

Debbie Flower  16:14

Yeah. Okay. They don't have to, especially if they have the netting, they don't have to be.

Farmer Fred  16:18

but most of your three inch or four inch peat pots look like they're they're fairly sturdy. Well, they are they're dry. But as soon as they get wet, they start to fall apart.

Debbie Flower  16:26

 Yeah, that's the problem. 

Farmer Fred  16:27

That's why are peat pots. Right? They're supposed to fall apart.

Debbie Flower  16:31

We experimented with cow pots made from cow manure. And there were some other pots that we experimented with in production when I was teaching, and they didn't hold up long enough for vegetable seedling production. At home, they'd probably work fine. But in a greenhouse situation, where we're trying to move them around and take them out of the greenhouse for sale. They just didn't stand up, they started to collapse. So they offer lots of different things for seed starting. There's even a way to make seed pots out of newspaper, which would work but that newspaper is gonna break down fairly quickly.

Farmer Fred  17:08

Very quickly. Yes. You mentioned damping off, right, let's talk about that. It's a very common disease for people who plant from seed You get your hopes up and overnight, your hopes are dashed.

Debbie Flower  17:22

 It's literally overnight. And it's, I believe, it's a fungal disease, and it travels with water. And it loves the conditions for seed starting, which is warm and moist. One day you have your plants Some people start lots of plants in one container, maybe in a flat, and the plants will look great, and you'll leave and you'll come back the next day and a portion of them are laying down right at the soil level. And it's because the disease has eaten that very fine stem all the way around it. It only likes very fine stems. So it only likes the seedling before it gets true leaves. Once the seedling has gotten true leaves, the stem is too thick for the disease to eat through it. But they lay over and they're they're dead. You can't do anything about it.

Farmer Fred  18:07

I guess technically a disease might dissolve and not eat. Or how does that work? When I think of eating, I think of insects chopping around it.

Debbie Flower  18:15

Yeah, well, okay. Whatever method it, consumes the very young stem.

Farmer Fred  18:23

Is damping off pythium? Or am I just making up a word there?

Debbie Flower  18:27

No, I don't think it is. I would have to check. 

Farmer Fred  18:30

I don't know. I'll check, too...

Farmer Fred  18:38

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Farmer Fred  19:42

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Farmer Fred  21:02

Meanwhile, back at the abutilon jungle, Fred and Debbie are trying to figure out what causes damping off of pepper seeds. Is it pythium and is pythium a fungus? Don't worry, this won't be on the Final.

Debbie Flower  21:17

Yeah, it's a fungus. Rhizoctonia and fusarium. Along with water mold pythium. Oh no, you're right. So it's a group of fungi.

Farmer Fred  21:31

It's a fungal club. All right. I like to use plastic pots over and over again, three inch plastic pots three inches wide, maybe four inches tall. Mm hmm. And I clean them thoroughly. Thank you. Then I always fear that, "Oh, what if this open package of seeds that I've had for a year went bad?" Well, I'll stick three seeds into each container, hoping one comes up. Of course all three germinate. 

Debbie Flower  21:56

That's very common. 

Farmer Fred  21:57

But by the time they put out their first true sets of leaves, I will be transplanting each one into its own three inch pot. And that means there's usually a big tray of pepper plants I'm offering for free out on the front porch every April or so.

Debbie Flower  22:13

Yes, the seedlings quickly take over space. So be prepared for that.

Farmer Fred  22:17

Yeah, that's the beauty of having a greenhouse. This is a good scenic bypass to go on, because what if you don't have a greenhouse? 

Debbie Flower  22:24

you can start them indoors, there are some aids to germination that you will want for any seedling. One is you want to be near a window, it does help to have light. Plants are amazing. Even house plants know when it's winter and when it's not. So it does help to have some stimulation from outdoor light. But you will need stronger light than that. So to get a good strong seedling, you need extra light. It used to be fluorescent lights hanging within inches, literally two, three inches above the plant. Now there are LED lights that can be used for the same thing at home. Those are your options. And the reason you don't want to use sodium halide or halogen or something like that is they are too hot. They give off too much heat and they would burn the plant. You have to have very strong lights, you have to have the light near the plant. And the amount of heat coming from those other types of lights that might be used in a commercial production situation would not work indoors in your home.

Farmer Fred  23:31

There are some interesting light structures out there that you could be using to get your seedlings to grow. And we should point out that you only need to turn those lights on when the plant has actually emerged from the ground.  And all of a sudden it wants more light. And most of these lighting systems are usually long, narrow tubes. And you wonder, "well, how the heck can that provide enough light?" I guess one of the keys is, it's only two inches from the top of the plant, right? But they're usually on flexible hoses if you will, and you can bend it down. And they come in different colors. 

Debbie Flower  24:09

Yes, they do. Lights come in what we call the warm tones, which would be the reds, yellows, orange; and the cool tones, which are the blues. And those two different parts of the spectrum have different jobs in the plant. And so you want two bulbs and you want one cool and one warm. I was looking at a seed catalog the other night and they had structures for starting seeds. It was just a two foot long fluorescent or it could have been LED fixture that holds two bulbs. One warm, one cool, it's on metal stand and you can raise and lower it. And that's important to be able to raise and lower it. So the ones Fred was describing we're on a gooseneck that can move around and the one I saw in the seed catalog would was attached to the side structure, and could be moved up and down, because the plants are going to grow. And you want to keep the bulbs within a couple of inches of the tops of the plants for best growth. That's one thing you definitely need, is additional light.

Farmer Fred  25:07

You can find some interesting little mini indoor greenhouses available at some of the big box stores and in the better nurseries that look like a little pup tent that have trays in them, a stand and a light fixture. Mm hmm. And it has like a white cover to it, a white sheet cover to it. And I guess that is for maintaining the heat inside.

Debbie Flower  25:32

Okay, I haven't seen those.

Farmer Fred  25:34

you need to  get out and shop around.

Debbie Flower  25:35

I have trouble understanding the need for the plastic part,  the structure part. I assume it's to increase moisture. But there are problems with getting the moisture too high, then you can start having fungal diseases and your plants can rot. The other thing that I would recommend that you have for seed starting is wind, a fan. So because you want the stem of the plant to be strong, and in order for the stem to be strong, it has to move, it has to develop what's called, reaction wood. It's called that whether the plant is woody or not. And you want it to sway back and forth. The experiment was done on plants on a bench by some graduate students, and they had to go into the greenhouse and shake the bench for 10 minutes a day. That's all it needed. That 10 minutes strengthen the stem. I use an oscillating fan, meaning one that goes back and forth. And I have it on a minimum of a half an hour, so that all the plants that it goes back and forth past will get their own 10 minutes of shaking and that will strengthen the stem of the plant.

Farmer Fred  26:43

 Half hour once a day. 

Debbie Flower  26:45

Half hour once a day. Yeah,

Farmer Fred  26:47

Also you can find these at just about any nursery or big box store, are  seed starting kits that consist of a catch basin if you will, an insert that might have  up to 72 cells in it and a high plastic lid.

Debbie Flower  27:03

The domes are wonderful. Yeah, I use domes. I have a greenhouse but I use domes. The domes have openings on either side and along the top so that you can control airflow. Seedlings do need airflow, you do want them. You don't want them to get so wet that they just rot in place. Seeds will rot in place if they get too wet. You do want some airflow to get them to germinate and then once they are above ground you take the dome off and start using the wind.

Farmer Fred  27:36

 Have you taken a look at the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter yet? There’s one that accompanies the Garden Basics podcast. It’s a deeper dive into what was discussed on the podcast, along with more great gardening information. I like to call it “Beyond the Basics”.  In the current edition of the newsletter, we expand upon Episode 163 of the Garden Basics podcast, which dealt with getting seeds to germinate quicker, and more successfully. You can find a link to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter in the podcast show notes; or, at Farmer Fred dot com; or, by going to substack dot com slash garden basics.  Think of it as your garden resource that goes beyond the basics. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. And it’s free. Please subscribe and share it with your gardening friends and family. The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. And thank you for listening.

Farmer Fred  28:54

 There are also, and this is important, because one question you have to ask yourself, where's the water going to go? Yeah, it has to go somewhere. It can't be sitting in the soil. And usually plant trays are ribbed so that the plant cells are sitting maybe half inch or so above the bottom. That just means you have to be vigilant though about emptying out the bottom of that tray. Right?

Debbie Flower  29:16

It's like watering a house plant. You don't want it to sit in a tray of water,

Farmer Fred  29:19

 And there are some kits you can buy that have everything you need all in one fell swoop, you've got the dome, you've got the cells, you've got the tray and you've got the heatmat below. That's a great way to get started. How long can they stay in those little cells though?

Debbie Flower  29:37

Well, I'm trying to think from germination, it might be a week or two depends on what you're growing, depends on how big it is. If it's a bean seed, you got to get it out of there really fast. You'll start seeing roots coming out the bottom of the cells, and that's definitely a time to take them out.  They're small, and when you have to increase your frequency in watering, you know, you've got a lot of roots in there. So those are the two clues.

Farmer Fred  30:05

Okay, you're right. And that's the other thing, too, is they may not need water every day, but you should check it every day. Absolutely. And some cells may be more prone to drying out than others.

Debbie Flower  30:15

Yes. Sometimes the edges dry out first, especially if the dome is older. And I do use them for more than one year and it doesn't quite fit, or part of it, I tried to always put too many pots on the heat pad. And so some of them are getting more heat than others. And so they're drying out sooner. So  they're getting sun, if they're in the greenhouse, some parts of the container, are getting sun, more sun than others, there are a variety of things that will cause different sections to dry out first. So yes, check them and periodically pick up the insert and check for roots coming out the bottom.

Farmer Fred  30:49

And if you use a plastic dome, make sure that has vents on top that you can open.

Debbie Flower  30:54

Right. And  make sure you do open some of them.

Farmer Fred  30:58

The question that people who listen to Garden Basics might ask, "why can't you just go to the nursery and buy the plants?" Well, you could, if you wanted to. But don't you like something a little different, right? Maybe if you want something that's heirloom or has a different texture, or look or color, much more available in seed than they are as plants. If you go to a good nursery, and check all the varieties of sweet pepper plants, for example, they might have 10, maybe 15 when there is, in reality, if you look at a seed catalog, there's pages and pages and pages,  of possibilities for you to plant. That's the next level for gardening is... 

Debbie Flower  31:41

explore. 

Farmer Fred  31:43

Thank you,  yes.

Debbie Flower  31:46

It's fun, it's rewarding. If you've got kids, they often get a kick out of, "look at that, it just came up!" Especially if they put the seed in the soil. So it can be really a cool thing to watch happen. And once you've invested in the seed starting set,  they're under 50 bucks, the whole set with the heating pad and the tray and the cells and the dome, then it can be cheaper, because you get a lot more seeds for what you would pay for a single plant at the nursery. And you can reuse it. If some of your plants didn't come up or you choose not to grow them. You can take the plant out and reuse some of the media for other uses, not for seed starting, but for other uses.

Farmer Fred  32:31

The nursery industry, they love for you to come in and buy those six packs or those four packs or those singles in the four inch pots of annuals and vegetables because they're making twice what they paid for it.

Debbie Flower  32:44

 Yeah, it's profit. But business deserves to make a profit. But you're right, it does. They do make money.

Farmer Fred  32:49

It's a high profit item for the nursery. Now the problem is, of course, if you're growing them from seed, you're gonna have more than you know what to do with.

Debbie Flower  32:56

Right, so you can make some really good friends. Yes, exactly.

Farmer Fred  32:59

Do a plant swap.

Debbie Flower  33:01

There you go. Yeah, yeah, you buy the peppers and someone else buys the tomatoes. Now one thing we didn't discuss was goosing those little seed peppers. Like we said, they take a long time to germinate. And it can be frustrating.  I taught students how to do this stuff and you want them to be successful. You want them to see the baby plant as soon as possible. One thing that we did, I read it somewhere, and we tried it and it did help. And that was to soak the seeds in hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide, its chemical makeup is H202. So it's additional oxygen to water. So it's got more oxygen, and that for some reason, seems to help the seed germinate. In order for a seed to germinate, it has to absorb moisture. There's a full sized baby plant in there and a source of food for that baby plant inside the seed. And so that absorbed moisture activates chemicals, which cause the cells to start to expand. The first thing that will come out of a seed is a root. And then after that, the cotyledons, which are the source of food and the full baby plant will expand. But for peppers, it just takes a long time. But soaking them in hydrogen peroxide helps. So then you say, "well, how long?" If you check the references, they vary from seconds to half hour. When we did it when I was teaching, we did it for 10 minutes. I can remember the students walking around, with their little plastic cup of pepper seeds, watching the clock and talking to each other, which is fine. It varies. I've also seen it recommended for chili pepper seeds, which are pepper seeds. Same thing. The amount of time varies depending on what reference you look at. But it's worth a try. You could do an experiment, plant some seeds without soaking, then plant some seeds with soaking. Make sure you put that on the label and then see who comes up first.

Farmer Fred  34:52

And what is the difference in the studies that you've done on this of germination time between and unsoaked pepper seed and soaked pepper seeds?

Debbie Flower  35:01

Well, I don't have that in my head immediately, but I want to say one week for soaked pepper seed. 

Farmer Fred  35:07

Wow, that's quick. 

Debbie Flower  35:08

Yeah, that is quick.

Farmer Fred  35:09

Yeah, because pepper seeds are notoriously slow. Yeah, don't give up after two weeks. It could be take a third week.

Debbie Flower  35:16

Yeah. And these were in a greenhouse with a dome, on bottom heat, tended daily. They were well looked-after seedlings.

Farmer Fred  35:23

And not fertilized. We should point out that at this point in their life, they don't need extra fertilization, correct?

Debbie Flower  35:30

They don't they have those cotyledons, and that's specifically to feed the baby plant. Once they're up out of the ground. It's a different story. But just to get them to germinate, they've got all the food they need. The other thing though to consider is don't plant them too deeply. They are living off of that cotyledon food. From the time they get wet, until they emerge and get sunlight. If they run out of that cotyledon food before they make it up to the surface and out into the sun, they're dead. So if you plant the seedling too deep, it will die before it makes it to the surface. It'll germinate but it'll die before it makes it to the surface. So we were talking about using vermiculite on the surface and  not putting the seed in very deeply. That may be a choice that is beneficial for getting those peppers up.

Farmer Fred  36:19

And again, the process was place the seeds on top of that moistened soil mix in the container, bang that container once on the table top and then sprinkle on like an eighth of an inch or so of vermiculite.

Debbie Flower  36:32

And then water very gently. Watering is a skill that I found I had to train the students to do because the tendency is to put the planted tray of seedlings or pot of seedlings right under the faucet and water it, and out of the pot goes this seed, because it is right there on the surface. So you need to use a very gentle flow.  We used Dramm brand nozzles, they make some with many many many holes in them, 300 holes, 500 holes, and I had the students turn on the water, stand back feet away from the table where  the flat of seedlings or planted seeds were, and turn it upside down so the water went up in the air and then it came down. It's frustrating because it doesn't wet the media as fast as they may have liked. They also make fogging nozzles to water seedlings with, they're even more frustrating because they produce very little water. But you put the media in wet, you've put the seed on the wet media, you put the wet vermiculite over the top, you're just trying to get everything settled with a little bit of water. You do not want the water to be very hard on the surface and wash the seed right out of the container.

Farmer Fred  37:49

Dramm refers to that utensil as their "water breaker nozzle."

Debbie Flower  37:54

Water breaker nozzle. Okay. Yeah, that's the thing on the end. Yeah.

Farmer Fred  37:58

Showerhead nozzle, water breaker nozzle. If you just have your typical multi headed hose end sprayer with various settings, I would do it on mist.

Debbie Flower  38:09

Yes, there you go. Very good. And that would work.

Farmer Fred  38:12

the whole idea is not to dislodge the seed. Great.

Debbie Flower  38:15

All right, just be aware of that when you water.

Farmer Fred  38:17

 Anything else.

Debbie Flower  38:19

The only other thing I could think of is people will say how long do I leave the lights on when the plant is up out of the ground? It's anywhere from eight to 12 hours a day.

Farmer Fred  38:26

Is that all? Would you do it during the day or at night? 

Debbie Flower  38:30

During the day. Plants need night. They do other things at night. During the day, they're doing photosynthesis and they're respiring which is the opposite of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis is making food. Respiring (at night) is taking that food, breaking it down to make new cells or fix damage or whatever the plant needs. If they never get nighttime, they can't do that and they'll burn themselves out. 

Farmer Fred  38:55

All right. Like you were mentioning, this is the perfect sort of homeschooling type of thing to do with the kids to show them how seeds germinate. But if you want a wide variety of different, cool looking, great tasting vegetables this year get seeds. We're starting off the season with peppers. Go ahead, buy some seeds and get started. Debbie Flower, thanks so much for getting us going on the 2022 vegetable garden. 

Debbie Flower  39:24

Always a pleasure. Thanks, Fred.

Farmer Fred  39:37

Don’t forget, if you want to learn more about the topics covered on today’s episode of Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, subscribe to the free Garden Basics newsletter, on Substack. Details are in today’s show notes. The Garden Basics Podcast will be on its winter schedule from November through January. Which means there will only be one episode per week during this three month period. It’ll come out on Fridays. Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, and we thank them for their support. Garden Basics is available for free wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.